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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: The Contamination on the Cake... [Re: Swami]
    #607831 -

Good morning, Swami.

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Re: The Contamination on the Cake... [Re: Learyfan]
    #607840 -

Dude, what the hell are you talking about? I'm all confused. You're smarter than I am. I admit defeat.
OK, once more. Try to stay with me here.

Governments and religions hate free-thinking...
See? You say religions hate free-thinking and I heartily agree with you. So if one is for religion then one is against free-thinking. So far so good.

...and it seems to be the same way with you.
In many posts I have made my anti-religious stance quite clear. Yet according to you, I am against free-thinking.

It seems that you believe that:
Pro religion - against free-thinking.
Anti religion - against free-thinking.

Do you truly not see my dilemna? Both cannot be valid.

Despite all the noise about my ego, this is not about winning and defeat. This is about expressing oneself clearly and thoughtfully.





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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: The Contamination on the Cake... [Re: Swami]
    #608138 -

you cant have your contamenated cake, and eat it too.....or can you...


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through our senses the world appears. through our reactions we create delusions. without reactions the world becomes clear.

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Re: The Contamination on the Cake... [Re: bedetached]
    #608162 -

LOL!


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: The Contamination on the Cake... [Re: CACA]
    #610322 -

You, uh, might want to loosen up your grip, chief. Just a little bit.

Looking for converts? Part of the reason I so despise Utilitarianism. Fuck man, even Jesus calls you guys sheep... haven't figured it out yet?

Just consider me another vine. A vine that won't be grafted onto yours. A vine that is comfortable with uncertainty (read fallibility). A vine without roots. A vine that doesn't need extra care because it does just fine on its own. A vine whose species will never go extinct (unlike yours). A vine that is constantly undergoing mutations to better adapt to the world. An eternal vine.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: The Contamination on the Cake... [Re: Swami]
    #608831 -





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Mp3 of the month: ESB - Mushroom People


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Re: The Contamination on the Cake... [Re: Swami]
    #608869 -

Swami, he means that they are closed-minded in their respective ways, the same ways two pairs of shoes which are different sizes, different brands and different styles can have the same color. (Let's say that the shoes represent groups of people and the color is an attribute, just in case you feel like chicken tonight and pull some verbal acrobatics to get us off the topic.) Like, say, the color blue.
Seriously, though, Swami. You're probably right about alot of stuff you talk about, but the simple fact that you say there is a kink in someone's thought process if they're wrong paired with the exhorbitant arguing of only arguments you know you will win for the sheer purpose, it seems, of coming off scott-clean, ("Internally inconsistent logic, drawing outrageous causal links, using fallacious arguments or stating hypothesis that are EASILY testable are a few of my favorite targets.")
brings into light .. a possible problem of yours, outside of logicity. This very post, set up by you, had to have been made to draw out the opinions of your peers here at the Shroomery, was it not? Isn't it true that you knew you would argue here? Ofcourse, after victory, you can slouch back down.

Does OCD run in your family ?

"Who in the Shroomery is like unto Swami?" lol

Seriously, though. Swami is nice, but whenever pushed, he automatically balls up- and rock hard- like my little brother did for a while after we were able to get him from the nightmare that was his father. My brother was hurt. Maybe I'm wrong about the guy. Admittedly, I haven't read many of his posts. (I don't like to read the boring, dead-end argumentation here on the Shroomery.)

Maybe Swami just likes to argue. Then again, if he were such an adept arguer, why argue here? Maybe its the attention for his wall of word/idea-judo championship medals and trophies. Or maybe either alone. Maybe he has nothing better to do? Maybe the pianist just wants to keep his fingers warm, eh? All I know is that there's something about an intelligent person arguing online that much that just isnt.. wholesome.

::Swami flying a kite at night::
If anything, if Swami wants anyone to talk to, I am here to talk with him.


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"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5

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Re: The Contamination on the Cake... [Re: CACA]
    #608912 -

the same ways two pairs of shoes which are different sizes, different brands and different styles can have the same color.
Is that you, Imelda?

Swami, he means that they are closed-minded in their respective ways
And you know what he means because you are in communication with him? Please show one statement displaying my alleged close-mindedness so that I may better understand his posture.

brings into light .. a possible problem of yours, outside of logicity. This very post, set up by you, had to have been made to draw out the opinions of your peers here at the Shroomery, was it not? Isn't it true that you knew you
Who gives a damn about my problems or lack thereof? Do my arguments have merit? That is the only important thing here.

All I know is that there's something about an intelligent person arguing online that much that just isnt.. wholesome.
Please state the wholesome limit for posting, so that I may not exceed it and lessen your opinion of me.

There seems to be a HUGE misconception about the nature of what an argument is so I will resort to the dictionary:
A course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth or falsehood: presented a careful argument for extraterrestrial life. (For all you synchronicity fans, I swear I didn't put that in there - LOL!)

A fact or statement put forth as proof or evidence; a reason: The current low mortgage rates are an argument for buying a house now.

A set of statements in which one follows logically as a conclusion from the others.

Arguing is not bickering. As this is a discussion board, arguments (not quarrels) are a basic part of any debate.

Some here just learned something new. See? I do serve a function!


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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (04/15/02 10:18 AM)

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Re: The Contamination on the Cake... [Re: CACA]
    #608927 -

I don't like to read the boring, dead-end argumentation here on the Shroomery
i love it

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Re: The Contamination on the Cake... [Re: Swami]
    #608939 -

I decided to bring into question more than just the arguing. Discussion boards are also for passing information, to which there isn't always a response. I wasn't attacking you or questioning the merit of your arguments, which I made pretty clear, but the motive behind the arguing. I was only trying to see if you wanted help with something. I am not Imelda. My opinion of you, whatever it is, isn't at stake because your arguments may or may not fall under the factual definition of what an argument is. Rather, it is the frequency and tone of the arguments that you have had that made me say what I said. If people are saying there is something objectionable, for whatever reason, going on with you, it isn't always an attack. In my case, I considered it a compliment to tell you that there was something I was concerned about and that if you needed to talk with someone, that I would be there to talk with.

Not wanting someone's help is not the same as pushing them away by purposefully being prickly. Anyways, I'm off.


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"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5

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Re: The Contamination on the Cake... [Re: CACA]
    #608957 -

Discussion boards are also for passing information, to which there isn't always a response.
True, but for passed information to be useful, it should be validated; otherwise it is just noise.

I am not Imelda.
Foot fetishist, then?

Rather, it is the frequency... of the arguments
How is that possibly bothersome? (My girlfriend never complains about frequency.) If I have too much free time or am the world's fastest typist, how is that anyone else's concern? I doubt my extra posting is putting much of a load on bandwidth or hard drive space. What exactly is the problem? Don't like my writing? My Avatar is pretty bold and one could use that as a "Don't Read This Post" warning.

Tone, frequency, motivation... What the hell ever happened to content and veracity?



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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (04/15/02 12:07 PM)

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Re: The Contamination on the Cake... [Re: Swami]
    #608958 -

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from
mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man
does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but
honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
-- Albert Einstein

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Re: The Contamination on the Cake... [Re: ]
    #609017 -

I was born shortly after Einstein's death, for you reincarnation buffs. Spooky, eh? Funny how only the skeptic, evolving, picked up on this nuance.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: The Contamination on the Cake... [Re: Swami]
    #609078 -







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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: ESB - Mushroom People


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Re: The Contamination on the Cake... [Re: Swami]
    #609358 -

.. Well, this was fun, but I don't think I'll continue walking around in circles. You're good at picking things apart and finding contexts, most of which will which favor you, so I'm not concerned that you do not understand what I said in the beginning here or what it was that I had continued saying- you know. No matter how many adjectives I would have included to characterize your arguments, you would have had something to say or add about or to it, since you are the kind of person that you like to argue, which is what I was getting at. Also, comparing yourself to "great" people like Einstein, is telling of the same problem I was getting at before. Let me use the right words, so as not to offend.


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"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5

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Re: The Contamination on the Cake... [Re: CACA]
    #609400 -

What I think you (CACA) are trying to get at is an issue of tolerance, right?

Sure, I guess Swami is quite intolerant of the "noise" that never seems to disappear from this forum. Since tolerance and intolerance are necessarily unreconcilable (ie. tolerant people can't tolerate intolerance... which is kinda funny), there must be a solution. Maybe you should offer a solution...

I don't think Swami would be arguing so much if there was less "noise." In fact, it used to clear up every few months (but only for a little while) and some good, old fashioned, hardcore philosophizing went down. But we haven't had a break like that in a while. Maybe if people did some extensive research (ie. simply reading unbiased books/articles) BEFORE they posted their wacky ideas, Swami wouldn't have to shoot them down so harshly.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: The Contamination on the Cake... [Re: Sclorch]
    #609526 -

Sclorch,
"...we haven't had a break like that in a while."

I really think this is the emotional aftermath of 9/11 and the whole deal of the escalating violence in the mideast. Many people are not emotionally or mentally prepared to confront problems which do not seem to have any solutions and appear to only be getting worse. Such people, when they feel insecure, may seek the security of myths and religion. Knowing that they are impotent to save the world (and hence themselves), they will grasp rather tightly onto their favorite beliefs as comfort, consoling themselves in the 'knowledge' that a savior in the form of a messiah or a highly advanced alien race is soon to arrive on the scene and make everything better.

However irrational these ideas may appear to some of us, they are an understandable psychological defense mechanism and are extremely important to those who hold them. This is also a self-validating mindset, people will tend to see everything through the lense of their cherished belief system and will filter out that which may loosen their tenuous grip on feelings of security.

Additionally, it is probably unwise for anyone to continue to dose themselves with hallucinogens while in this state of mind. The phrase "set and setting" is a very important one to remember.

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Re: The Contamination on the Cake... [Re: ]
    #610099 -

Evolving, you are dead wrong in saying belief in God is the belief in myth. I bet you yourself don't even believe that. A famous late atheist said that from the time she was a child, she was plagued by the feeling of the presence of God. So, she told God, "You leave me alone and I'll leave you alone." She rejected God. She acknowledged that he existed, but chose not to accept Him, as so many other people do, which is sad. Still others lie to themselves and others, which is not surprisingly, the beginning of their spiritual deaths through denial, selfishness and self-pleasure. Satan is the father of lies and, "A liar from the beginning," so it is fitting that these people who live this way start out with lies.
It sounds more like you yourself are not prepared to set yourself aside, and surrender to God almighty and accept His Son, Jesus Christ, Who has always been knocking at the doors of your hearts.
Humble yourselves before God and ask Him to forgive your sins and reveal Himself to you. Humble yourselves.

People who speak out against God's Word are most often, if not always, the same people who are lacking in the very morals and values that His Word teaches- William S. Burroughs, for example.

Part of the selfishness and lies to yourself and your fellow man are that if you are not hurting any person else than yourself, it is your business what you do. This thinking is fundamentally flawed, since it is not your fellow man forwhich you live, but God, instead. You should first consider what the condition of your relationship with God is before anything else. Do things for God- not for man. That is what God says. Humans are the not the center of the Universe.

Wouldn't you be ready to help your own children any way you could? How much more than we can imagine do you think God is willing to do for us? His Word endures forever. Praise the Lord.


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"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5

Edited by CACA (04/16/02 03:21 PM)

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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