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Explain how a battery works?
    #6063701 -

How some can be recharged, and how some cannot... ...etcetera!

I know about the Searching, and such..

..but, I'd like to hear it from you!

I guess someone out there, got extensive information on this.

And a great way to learn it, is to teach it away! :wink::thumbup:

(I get conflicting messages, so I guess there are many types of batteries, but that is something you might explain?)

Thank you, I am seriously interested.

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Re: Explain how a battery works? [Re: Gomp]
    #6063721 -

batteries are made of an acid and a metal or metal compound. the acid basically pulls electrons from the metal and shoots them out the positive end of the battery. my guess would be that there is some kind of "power thresh hold" to recharging a battery where the power going into the battery has to be stronger than the power trying to come out of the battery. nowadays w/ the right charger, every battery can be recharged. this technology became widespread in the 90's.


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You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true.  I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.


I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.

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Re: Explain how a battery works? [Re: iateshaggy]
    #6063841 -

http://home.howstuffworks.com/battery.htm

it's all there.


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You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true.  I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.


I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.

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Re: Explain how a battery works? [Re: iateshaggy]
    #6065450 -

pulls electrons from the metal and shoots them out the positive end of the battery

Electrons come out of the negative end of a battery.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Explain how a battery works? [Re: Diploid]
    #6065544 -

damb it, that's why duracell didn't give me a job.


--------------------
You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true.  I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.


I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.

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Re: Explain how a battery works? [Re: Gomp]
    #6066908 -

Well, it may have already been explained but I'll give it another shot. (It's been awhile since I took chem, pardon any mistakes).


Batteries use a chemical reaction called Galvanic reaction. This is part of Electro-Chemistry.

Galvanic reactions, when completely written out, have a few steps. But we generally simplify them and ignore intermediate steps. For our purposes I'll just write out the simplified version. (PM me if you want a completely chemical reaction breakdown)

Galvanic half-step example:
Cu (s) ---> Cu 2+(aq) + 2e-

Basically, what's going on in this reaction is a strip of metal is placed in a solution. Compounds in this solution shear away two electrons from a copper atom and leave behind a copper cation in solution (this is very simplified, I know).

Now that we understand where the electrons come from we must now understand a few key things.

1:Batteries are two half-cells! They MUST be!
2: The eargerness of the half-step reaction to produce electrons is that half-steps 'potential energy'.
3: In order for a batter to work electrons must flow from one cell, through a wire, and to the other cell.
4: In order for there to be a flow a DIFFERENCE in potential energy must exist between the two cells. (Eg: Two guys pushing each other, one must push harder if they want to move! ).

An example of a galvanic cell would be: (made up numbers, BTW)

Cu(s) ---> Cu2+(aq) + 2e- (+0.7V)
Zn(s) ---> Zn2+(aq) + 2e- (-0.8V) <---The numbers in brackets indicate the cells potential energy. The half step with the highest potential energy will flow electrons to the one with the least. The difference between them is your batteries total potential energy, or it's voltage.


One last thing to mention about galvanic reaction type batteries. A crucial part of them is called a salt bridge. This is a opening between the two containers containing a filter tha allows ONLY ELECTRONS to pass through it. This prevents the electrons from just piling up in one cell and neutralizing the reaction.

Oh, if anybody is wondering how wires conduct electricity that's also pretty interesting. Basically metal atoms are surrounded in a 'sea of electrons' which aren't locked into position but can flow from one atom to the next. When an electrode is placed in a solution high in electrons they bump into electrons on the electrode and cause a chain reaction all the way down the line.


I hope I haven't screwed this all up in my head. I think it's mostly right! Feel free to ask me to clarify or explain anything.


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You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.
-- Booker T. Washington

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Re: Explain how a battery works? [Re: DocPsilocybin]
    #6068843 -

DocPsilocybin said:
Cu(s) ---> Cu2+(aq) + 2e- (+0.7V)
Zn(s) ---> Zn2+(aq) + 2e- (-0.8V) <---The numbers in brackets indicate the cells potential energy.  The half step with the highest potential energy will flow electrons to the one with the least.  The difference between them is your batteries total potential energy, or it's voltage. 



Wow! That was just what I was after! Thank you ever so much!

In that example, the battery would then be 1,3V?

Not sure if I got that part, but this sure give a much clearer picture.
I been 'seeing' it as if the battery when recharged; there is no "filling up", rather a "Reorganizing/cleanup/'set as it was before usage'/reset" ...

Please tell more if I got it wrong, or rephrase what I am intending on saying if you grasp it. I got a lot on my mind these days, so much merging going on.. :smile:

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Re: Explain how a battery works? [Re: Gomp]
    #6069948 -

Gomp said:
DocPsilocybin said:
Cu(s) ---> Cu2+(aq) + 2e- (+0.7V)
Zn(s) ---> Zn2+(aq) + 2e- (-0.8V) <---The numbers in brackets indicate the cells potential energy.  The half step with the highest potential energy will flow electrons to the one with the least.  The difference between them is your batteries total potential energy, or it's voltage. 



Wow! That was just what I was after! Thank you ever so much!

In that example, the battery would then be 1,3V?

Not sure if I got that part, but this sure give a much clearer picture.
I been 'seeing' it as if the battery when recharged; there is no "filling up", rather a "Reorganizing/cleanup/'set as it was before usage'/reset" ...

Please tell more if I got it wrong, or rephrase what I am intending on saying if you grasp it. I got a lot on my mind these days, so much merging going on.. :smile:


Gomp!  .7 + (-.8) = ..... -0.1 Which is NOT what I was going for.  You're adding the difference.  Basically minus one.  Eg, 0.7 - (-0.8) = 1.5V which is exactly what I'm shooting for! 

When a battery recharges we can basically think of the process of creating energy going in reverse.  Electrons get reintroduced into the positive side (electrons flow FROM positive TO negative) which pushes the chemical reaction backwards and turns Cu2+ back into Cu(s).. 

Makes sense?

Hope so because I'm smashed!  :cool:


--------------------
You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.
-- Booker T. Washington

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Re: Explain how a battery works? [Re: Diploid]
    #6073036 -

> batteries are made of an acid and a metal or metal compound.

I don't think my silver-zink batteries are gonna like it when I add an acid instead of a base.

> Electrons come out of the negative end of a battery.

Yes, but the important question is which direction does current flow... with the electrons or with the holes?  :wink:

> In that example, the battery would then be 1,3V?

Closer to 1,5v with proper math.  Also, this is typically called a cell (or cell voltage) where a battery is a collection (or battery) of cells.  A 12v lead acid battery will be a collection of 6 cells wired in series each running at aproximately 2v.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Explain how a battery works? [Re: DocPsilocybin]
    #6073369 -

DocPsilocybin said:
Gomp said:
DocPsilocybin said:
Cu(s) ---> Cu2+(aq) + 2e- (+0.7V)
Zn(s) ---> Zn2+(aq) + 2e- (-0.8V) <---The numbers in brackets indicate the cells potential energy.  The half step with the highest potential energy will flow electrons to the one with the least.  The difference between them is your batteries total potential energy, or it's voltage. 



Wow! That was just what I was after! Thank you ever so much!

In that example, the battery would then be 1,3V?

Not sure if I got that part, but this sure give a much clearer picture.
I been 'seeing' it as if the battery when recharged; there is no "filling up", rather a "Reorganizing/cleanup/'set as it was before usage'/reset" ...

Please tell more if I got it wrong, or rephrase what I am intending on saying if you grasp it. I got a lot on my mind these days, so much merging going on.. :smile:


Gomp!  .7 + (-.8) = ..... -0.1 Which is NOT what I was going for.  You're adding the difference.  Basically minus one.  Eg, 0.7 - (-0.8) = 1.5V which is exactly what I'm shooting for! 

When a battery recharges we can basically think of the process of creating energy going in reverse.  Electrons get reintroduced into the positive side (electrons flow FROM positive TO negative) which pushes the chemical reaction backwards and turns Cu2+ back into Cu(s).. 

Makes sense?

Hope so because I'm smashed!  :cool:



So no power is added?

Power is only "restored"?

:smile:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?

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Re: Explain how a battery works? [Re: Gomp]
    #6073576 -

> So no power is added?

Power is work done per time period...
Work is a force acting on an object causing a displacement...

In this case, a force acts against the electrons to move them "up hill" causing a displacement from their original location. If you measure the work of moving electrons "up hill" over time, you get the power consumed by the system to charge the battery.

It isn't that power is added or power is restored, rather power is a measure of how much energy (in the form of work) was added to the battery over time as you charge it. Later, this energy can be released from the battery, over time, providing power, as the battery discharges.

When speaking physics, one must be very careful with the use of Work, Power, and Energy. The meaning of the words are very specific, and they are not at all synonymous or interchangable with one another.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Explain how a battery works? [Re: Seuss]
    #6077415 -

Seuss said:
> So no power is added?

Power is work done per time period...
Work is a force acting on an object causing a displacement...

In this case, a force acts against the electrons to move them "up hill" causing a displacement from their original location.  If you measure the work of moving electrons "up hill" over time, you get the power consumed by the system to charge the battery.

It isn't that power is added or power is restored, rather power is a measure of how much energy (in the form of work) was added to the battery over time as you charge it.  Later, this energy can be released from the battery, over time, providing power, as the battery discharges.

When speaking physics, one must be very careful with the use of Work, Power, and Energy.  The meaning of the words are very specific, and they are not at all synonymous or interchangable with one another.



Hum..

When I get my "mind" wrapped on this, I bet I will see why I can't sleep..

Had the weirdest dreams as I came back this morning..

So much to learn!
So much time!
So much! ...

:sunny:

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Re: Explain how a battery works? [Re: Gomp]
    #6077751 -

If you have an iron car wreck, lob it in a pool with some salt and a cable attached, then put a copper pipe in the water with another cable, you'll have a weak-ass battery (0.5 volts or so) but which has a tremendous capacity before it depletes.

If you want to hobby with tabletop batteries your best friend is aluminium foil. Aluminium has an *enormous* electron capacity (9 gram of aluminium transfers one electrone-mole, ten times more by weight than a lead battery) and copper tubing can be your cathode.

In salty water the aluminium will be eaten and current will flow. This cell produces hydrogen gas, so use only in a ventilated place.

copper/aluminium works well and practically achieves 0.4-0.6v per cell, more cells = more volts.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Explain how a battery works? [Re: Asante]
    #6078046 -

> more cells = more volts

More cells in series = more volts.  :wink:


In college, I was involved in a project that used ten deep cycle lead acid batteries (4200 amp-hour, 12v) designed for fast discharge.  If you shorted one, it would discharge in a few seconds, melting the battery.  These were all wired in series to give us 120v DC that could easily deliver 350+ amps, continuous.  I was one of two souls that were brave (stupid) enough to volunteer to wire the batteries when needed.

One day, me and the other guy are wiring up the batteries with me on watch and him working the tools.  After the forth or fifth battery, he extended the wrench too far and shorted across the hot terminal to the chasis ground.  A bright flash resulted as the ends of the wrench vaporized, leaving only the middle bit (enclosed in rubber) left in his hand.  He handed me what was left of the wrench (along with the good wrench), got up without a word, and walked away.  With a shrug, I kept on wiring the rest of the bank.  Batteries can be dangerous.

One of the other crazy memories I have from the project is how we used to turn the damn thing off... switches that could cut 120v/350+amp DC were too big and heavy... so we simply shorted across power terminals after the fuse... *BOOOM* goes the fuse, no more power!


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Explain how a battery works? [Re: Seuss]
    #6078143 -

:shocked:

You needed that for your 42kW flashlight? :smirk:

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Re: Explain how a battery works? [Re: Seuss]
    #6079537 -

Quote:
More cells in series = more volts.



It would be silly if the number of batteries in your house determined their individual voltage  :wink:

Quote:
120v DC that could easily deliver 350+ amps, continuous.


damn you can fry a bull with that, in its own tallow :crazy:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

Edited by Asante (09/19/06 07:22 PM)

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Re: Explain how a battery works? [Re: Annom]
    #6081268 -

> You needed that for your 42kW flashlight?

Nah, high speed electric car... we were trying to break the electric car speed record (hence the need for low weight).


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Explain how a battery works? [Re: Seuss]
    #6081293 -

Cool! Did it ever power a car? How fast did it go?

42kW could, in theory, drive a car around 150km/h (made a very rough calculation).

Here is a video of an electric car, 0-60 in 3 seconds (faster than a supercar (shown in this race)): http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3624337653720181416&q=electric+racing+car&hl=en

Edited by Annom (09/20/06 05:31 AM)

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