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InvisibleHorusTh3Chrous

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 955
HELP please! Contam questions?
    #5559094 - 04/26/06 03:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

A few questions; I just PC'd jars about a week ago, and was waiting for my LC's to finish. When today in a few of the jars there was white mold all over.
Did i PC too long?
tore to long?
How much room should be left at the top of the jar after putting dry vermuculite? I thought everything was sterile enough. Also i ground up the organic long grain brown rice in my blender, but there was still small grains left, should it be all flour(it takes so long to grind) Is this what caused my contam? The substrate wasnt too wet either, i followed the Pf tek very closly! Maybe it was the PCooker?
When i took the jars out they kinda smelled, like somthing weird? But not as bad as that mold smelled today...How long can jars be stored?
Thanks guys!!!


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OfflineDICK
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Registered: 12/28/05
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Re: HELP please! Contam questions? [Re: HorusTh3Chrous]
    #5559106 - 04/26/06 03:24 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Contamination forum!!!!

Anyway yea, your jars are toast. Throw them out. Next time revise your sterile techniques and tru again :tongue:


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Offlinefuturewolf42o
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Registered: 03/30/06
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Re: HELP please! Contam questions? [Re: HorusTh3Chrous]
    #5559121 - 04/26/06 03:28 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

if you had pc'd it correctly then i dont see the cause of your problem, usually a 1/2 inch of vermiculite is good. small grains are ok, i actually prefer it because i feels it doesn't compact as much.


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Registered: 03/13/06
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Re: HELP please! Contam questions? [Re: HorusTh3Chrous]
    #5559135 - 04/26/06 03:33 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

some points:

- how do we know if you PC'd too long?  you didn't say how long you PC'd for.  chances are if you're contamed, it wasn't long enough, done incorrectly, or your PC didn't seal like it should and you never got up to 15PSI (or a combination of those factors)

- there should be no room in your jar.  the top layer of verm should go to the very brim.  if you're using coarse verm, that doesn't make for a very good dry layer.  might need to break it up, or go for the smaller pieces already broken up at the bottom of the bag.  if you can "see" the substrate through pockets between the verm, it wasn't making that contamination barrier that its there for.  also make sure to wipe clean the insides of the top section of jar before putting the verm in.  what else did you have on top?  a typical 4-hole lid covered in foil?

- small pieces of rice are ok to an extent.  it doesn't need to be super fine flour, a little chunky is ok.  if you're talking like half pieces of rice left you probably should have ground it up more, but that's got nothing to do with contams.  contams come from contaminating spores or bacteria, end of story.  they either were not killed in your sterilizing process, or made their way in after.  nothing else can cause a contamination.  contaminations are living organisms.  if you managed to spontaneously generate life by not grinding rice fine enough, we'll have to start calling you god and start to rethink this whole sex thing  :cool:

- if the jars smelled strongly, you probably had a bacterial infection on top of the mold you could see.  they do have a light scent to them out of the PC, but it should smell about like when you were mixing up the substrate.  wet verm smells kind of like dirt, and brf has a distinct smell... that smells like brown rice cooking!  mixed together its a little wierd, but shouldn't be strong nor offensive.

- sterilized jars will keep a very long time.  keeping them a while can cause them to dry out some, and that's the drawback.  if they were properly sterilized, dry verm layer properly used, and preferably taped up or covered in foil (when storing) they shouldn't contam even if left for a very long time.


Edited by creamcorn (04/26/06 03:51 PM)


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InvisibleHorusTh3Chrous

Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 955
Re: HELP please! Contam questions? [Re: creamcorn]
    #5559603 - 04/26/06 05:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Damm creamcorn, you are awsome!
I pc'd for about 40min! But i heard the jars shake, so i kept the heat at about three, but i slowly worked up to that, i put the weight on top..My PC also has no way of telling the psi.
But maybe this could have done it; The nexpore tape was put on before i PC'd,(some of the tape melted, maybe contams got though that way?) and then foil over the four/three holes..tight seal! But i did leave some air space on the top, after the dry MEDium grade verm. I didnt think the rice was it either(wasnt sure thou)...MAN you are a funny guy too, lol That was a good laugh!
**("if you can "see" the substrate through pockets between the verm"
Can you explain a lil better?)**
So any idea on what to set my stove to(temp)? It goes from 1-6...
WEll thanks again!


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OfflineShroomInduced
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Re: HELP please! Contam questions? [Re: HorusTh3Chrous]
    #5560030 - 04/26/06 07:49 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

It sounds like the problem is that your stupid LOL HHAHAHAH. When you pc you want to crank that fucker up. When the weight lifts off (assuming you have a 15psi weight) you turn it down to a medium setting, or 3 on your stove, 3 is between 0 and 6. The weight should just release steam about 4 times per second.


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: HELP please! Contam questions? [Re: HorusTh3Chrous]
    #5560153 - 04/26/06 08:20 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

modsquad09 said:
**("if you can "see" the substrate through pockets between the verm"
Can you explain a lil better?)**





well... think like a spore. you're a tiny microscopic spec floating in the air. you land in a hole on the lid. is there enough verm there to catch you? or are you gonna be able to float right down through it because its too airy? just make sure when you look down at your jar from the top, there's no sight of the brown rice anywhere, you should see nothing but verm.

and in the future if the PC doesn't work out, boiling does do just fine for PF. put an old rag or washcloth on the bottom of the pot. make sure its a pot with a tight fitting lid, and use it! place your jars in, and fill water so its about 1/3rd up the side. start your heat on low (you said your stove goes 1-6, so somewhere around 2), and let it gradually work up to a slow rolling boil (takes anywhere from 15-20 minutes). i happen to have a glass lid so i can tell exactly when it is boiling... but no problem to peek at this point. reduce heat if things get out of control - you don't want jars banging around in there, you're lucky they didn't break! once you've got the boil started, keep it going for 75 minutes. at that point, turn off the heat, and let them gradually cool still covered in the pot. don't try taking them out of the pot until at least 2 hours have past, or you risk cracking the jars still. air also expands in the jars, you'll see the foil puff up - if you take them out while they're still too warm you'll see that foil quickly suck back down - guess what, it just sucked in a bunch of air that could be potentially contaminated! so its best to leave the whole thing covered overnight, the foil will slowly return only having sucked in clean air in the pot, and then inoculate the following day. no matter what, make sure they're cool to the touch before trying anything. have seen nothing but 100% success with this. any less than an hour however, turns out exactly like yours did - my guess is your PC wasn't sealed up or working right, and you basically were just steaming them and not pressure cooking, and if thats the case, 40 minutes isn't enough. i also make use of the pore tape, but i don't put it on before steaming. wrap the tops tight in foil to keep water from bubbling in, take foil off when its time to inoculate, then immediately cover the holes with tape after. you can take the tape off a week or two later when the jars show good progress, and your dry verm layer takes it from there. good luck!


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