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Offline_JJ_
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*confused* - cannabis brought out the trip?
    #554868 - 02/18/02 12:42 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Heya everyone.. last night in a dream a few of us consumed some nice fresh shrooms - 2 of us did 20grams and the other 2 did 15grams (as it was their first time). We dosed at 9:15pm and felt very little all the up till 12:15 when we smoked a couple of cones. The difference was amazing - the weed brought us right into the experience. It was my second time and I have to say it was breathtaking :laugh: Everything looked so amazing.. it all felt like a dream.. a fairytale.. I could hear soft bells ringing like in alice and wonderland or something :smile:
Anyhow.. my question is - why was there nothing until we smoked? I don't really want to have to smoke weed to experience the shrooms.. I could tell the weed was present as later on as it made me lethargic. This weed, btw, was Aussie sativa - so it, in itself, is extremely trippy - you get 2d imaging over everything normally and everything goes crazy. I could distinctly tell, however, that this was different.. it was a beautiful experience.. things started breathing. I stared at this brick for like half an hour :smile: We went for a walk through the national park and the path would keep appearing in front of us.. like out of that game return to zork (anyone?) where you get tunnel vision and the path keeps going on and on in the forest.
Anyway.. yea.. weed brought out the trip.. is it because they were fresh that the trip isn't as intense or something - or is there a sort of 'breaking in' for first (well second for me) time tripping?
Cheers! :smile:


Edited by _JJ_ (02/18/02 12:44 AM)


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: _JJ_]
    #555085 - 02/18/02 07:45 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

JJ:

It's reasonably well-known that adding Grass to Shrooms (or LSD) potentiates the impact. The groups I trip in always hit up (Grass) when the Trip's declining to give it a boost again. It alters the Effect, but it's major effect's potentiation. Usually the Grass won't feel like Grass then, too.

It's a bit unlikely that those 15-20grs fresh were too weak, it can be, but is unlikely. More likely is that you needed the Grass as a sort of kickstart to overcome the psychological barriers that try to "hold the Trip back" when it's developing. Another possibility, probably the most likely: Your shrooms were a lil on the weak side, your doses were in the (average person's) 4-8mg range and the Grass lifted it over the 8-10mg barrier, where Trips can get STRONG.
Yeah... That's most plausible!
Hope to have helped...


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OfflineFood
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: _JJ_]
    #555095 - 02/18/02 08:02 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

*@******  - Hail JJ -  ******@*

Greetings oh holy one - recently I drank some mushroom tea and smoked some cannabis although I was smoking the cannabis before during and after drinking the tea .
I beleive that sativan cannabis can have a synergistic effect with shrooms .
My advice oh sacred master is to take more shrooms and smoke less pot for a purer experience of the shroom trance state.
You have spoken of eating 20 grams fresh - this roughly equates to 2 grams dry and is at the lower end of the spectrum of what can be acheived - if you eat the equivalent of 3.5 grams dry next time then you should feel the effects without cannabis and your mind will be taken further from normal consciousness than your last time .

I advise thee to drink tea - for me it completely eliminates any feeling of phsical sickness .

Be happy  !!!!!!! :smile:


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Offline_JJ_
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: Asante]
    #555113 - 02/18/02 08:45 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Thanks Wiccan_Seeker. The thing is, well for me anyway, I felt very little at all until I smoked. I only had a kind of body high - you know the whole warm feeling in the chest.. so I'm thinking maybe the psychological barriers are to blame - maybe I was too much in control to let go?

Thanks too Food heh.. all hail ye shaman Food! :laugh:
Well I was led to believe that shrooms are more potent fresh as there is degradation through drying.. However, I'll try a higher dose next time and see what happens! I didn't find any physical sickness so do you still recommend I make a tea of the shrooms? I've heard many conflicting stories on the degradation of psilocybin through the preparation of tea..


Edited by _JJ_ (02/18/02 08:46 AM)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: _JJ_]
    #555236 - 02/18/02 12:09 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Where the shrooms capped (like a pill). My friend has had it take several hours for capped shrooms to kick in. How soon before hand had you eaten? Extra food in the belly will slow down absorption. How long ago did you take shrooms? The tolerance you build up can really degrade a trip unless you wait a month or two between.

My friend swears that anytime she made a tea and strained out the fruit that the trip was not as strong. She has experimented with serveral methods of tea making. She has tried everything from boiling at 121C, simmering but not boiling, cold soaking, and even boiling under partial vacuum (to lower the boiling point temperature). If you don't mind it, my friend would recommend eating the fruit rather than making tea.

Here is my theory on why there are so many conflicting stories about making tea. Basically, shrooms (cubensis) have two active alkaloids, Psilocybin (around .63%) and Psilocin (around .60%). Psilocin is the 4 hydroxy analog of psilocybin, and is formed by metabolic dephosphoylation of psilocybin in the bodies central nervous system [Hoita, Weber, Toxicol Appl. Pharmacol. 4, 730 (1962)]. Psilocin is about 1.4 times more potent, by weight, than psilocybin. Finally, psilocin is very unstable, and easily breaks down into unexciting byproducts.

Not all Cubensis have a lot of Psilocin in them. It depends on how they were grown, or dried, or stored, or genetics, or luck, or... For the shrooms that don't have much Psilocin in them, there is no difference in strength if you make a tea.

For shrooms that have a lot of Psilocin in them, the heat from making the tea destroys the majority of the Psilocin, making them much less strong. Also, psilocin is only slightly soluable in water, making it difficult for the tea to pick up 100% of the goods.

Therefore, teas may or may not decrease the strength of the shroom depending upon the shrooms used to make the tea. If the shroom used do not have much psilocin in them to start with, the tea will be nearly as strong as the shrooms by themselves. If the shrooms have a lot of psilocin in them, making tea can destroy around a half of the good stuff you would have gotten had you just eaten them plain.



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Offlinebeatlesrock
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: Seuss]
    #555614 - 02/18/02 08:22 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

(what i am about to say never really happened, all a dream....so no coming after me, cops :smile:

after about an hour and a half into my lsa trip nothing was really happening, so i smoked a bowl. DAMN! i went from near baseline to tripping balls almost instantly 


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Offline_JJ_
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: Seuss]
    #555769 - 02/19/02 12:08 AM (15 years, 9 days ago)

Seuss: The shrooms were fresh.. I had eaten about an hour before - though I made sure it was a very light meal (2 slices of pizza).. I took shrooms (first time) about 72hours before - that was a low dose to test my tolerance.
Thanks for all that info on the tea! I think I'll find another way to ingest them :laugh: The rest of my shrooms are dried - is blending them in a drink a good way to ingest this blessed substance? :smile:

beatlesrock: I hear ya! :laugh:


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: beatlesrock]
    #556015 - 02/19/02 07:52 AM (15 years, 9 days ago)

On Morning Glories:
I've had the same experience! I took 3gr of I.Violacea's & it really wasn't much. Hours later into it I toked up. (small joint, really...)
My eyes widened considerably & I got into VERY SPECTACULAR visuals!!! Went into a dark room and got extremely clear & beautiful "brain movies" quite unlike LSD & Shrooms.

On capped Shrooms: frequently had em & they ALWAYS took about 1/2 hours longer to kick in than munching them, never several hours.

My preferred way of ingesting shrooms & such: don't eat for at least 2-3hrs, munch 'em & wash away with water. It's very unpleasant if you hate the taste, but for the Trip it's the best thing. Avoid milk & the like: It's my experience that that dramatically decreases potency, probably by forming the Psilocybin Calcium salt.
What seems to be most important is mixing saliva with shrooms (while chewing) I think it's an enzyme thing. Oh yeah: take small bits of shroom at a time, since 2x as muh means 3x as gross to most people. Every 1gr dry/10gr fresh I chew in about 4 portions, 15-30sec. each, avoiding the tongue.

As to 1mg Psilocin equalling 1.4mg Psilocybin. I've read that a couple of times too. But please note that Hofmann & Shulgin claim they're about equipotent and they both tried the pure crystals.
Hope to have helped...


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: _JJ_]
    #556057 - 02/19/02 10:00 AM (15 years, 9 days ago)

They hit my friend hardest and fastest when the entire fruitbody is blended into a warm drink on an empty stomach. If you don't find the taste bad, some of us don't, just eat them like chips and wash them down with a glass of water. My friend goes for easy when possible. :-)



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OfflineSeussA
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: Asante]
    #556061 - 02/19/02 10:06 AM (15 years, 9 days ago)

They (psilocin and psilocybin) are equipotent because your body turns one (psilocin) into the other (psilocybin). The 1.4 times by weight comes from math on the weight of the molecule itself (per molecule, psilocybin weighs more than psilocin):

molecular weight of psilocybin (C12H17N2O4P) 284.3
-------------------------------------------- = ----- = 1.391 (aprox 1.4)
molecular weight of psilocin (C12H16N2O) 204.3


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OfflineMrShroomer
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: Seuss]
    #556377 - 02/19/02 04:56 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

'Psilocin is the 4 hydroxy analog of psilocybin, and is formed by metabolic dephosphoylation of psilocybin in the bodies central nervous system'
You also said that it's the other way around...so which way is it?


Edited by MrShroomer (02/19/02 04:59 PM)


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Offline_JJ_
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: Asante]
    #557169 - 02/20/02 08:18 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Thanks everyone.. I'll give the whole chewing thing a go :laugh:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: MrShroomer]
    #557320 - 02/20/02 11:31 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Did I? hehe... I should proof read what I write... Guess that is what happens when you get used to having a copywrite around. :-)

Lemme pull the source and look for sure:

[cut-n-paste]
Psilocin, the 4-hydroxy analog of psilocybin, is formed by metabolic dephosphoylation of psilocybin and is the active species in the central nervous
system: Hoita, Weber, Toxicol Appl. Pharmacol. 4, 730 (1962).
[/cut-n-paste]


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OfflineMrShroomer
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: Seuss]
    #557467 - 02/20/02 02:46 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Don't worry seuss, it took me some time trying to figure out if the points you made actually corresponded with each other or not! But hey, I am a scatterbrain stoner.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: Seuss]
    #558106 - 02/21/02 02:52 AM (15 years, 7 days ago)

As to potencies of PSB vs. PSN:

I know the general idea behind it, and it makes perfect sense. But remember it's never been proven PSB turns into PSN and that the latter's responsible for all Psychotropic fx. When you take PSB IV (in the vain: Nobody should shoot nothing up exept for docs giving pharmaceutical injections) it'll work within a minute, while splitting Phosphate Esters (such as alot of insecticides) in the body usually takes ALOT more time.
And allthough the 1 : 1.4 thing really appeals to me: The Shulgin group found no significant potency differences, just like it's discoverer Hofmann.

My personal theory: I think that PSB + PSN are made into SOMETHING ELSE by stuff in the blood and that PSN's phenolic group isn't as reactive as the phenolic phosphate ester of PSB explaining why it's equipotent. It's unlikely both groups have missed a potencydifference of about 1/3 if it really were there.
I really hope Psilocin's more potent, tho...


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InvisiblePsilocyberSpace
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: _JJ_]
    #558131 - 02/21/02 03:25 AM (15 years, 7 days ago)

Were you the one who wrote the nice report "Wonderland Dreaming"



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Offline_JJ_
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: PsilocyberSpace]
    #558360 - 02/21/02 11:37 AM (15 years, 7 days ago)

Indeed I was :smile:


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InvisiblePsilocyberSpace
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: _JJ_]
    #558500 - 02/21/02 01:56 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

Very very nice, very well written, glad to hear people are having such wonderful magical experiences.


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Edited by PsilocyberSpace (02/21/02 02:05 PM)


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Offline_JJ_
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: PsilocyberSpace]
    #559139 - 02/22/02 01:27 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Thanks Psilocyber! :laugh:


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OfflineSpitfire
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Re: *confused* - cannabis brought out the trip? [Re: _JJ_]
    #568408 - 03/03/02 10:09 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I can say with confidence that the best (not the best tasting) way to take shrooms i have found is to blend them fresh and just neck them the hit is apon you before you know. we then have a large dose of good hash about 4 hrs later which brings us back to the top this works for us using lib caps.


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