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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Catalysis]
    #5301588 -

To the contrary, many of these scientists are shunned by the government for espousing politically unpopular opinions.


I don't know about the government, I know they are shunned by the scientific community. When did you last hear a speech by George Bush on man-made global warming?

You guys even admit that global warming is politically popular.

I don't think it's popular among governments, because it's going to mean an enormous reduction in profits for big buisness.

far greater threat than a theory which may or may not prove to be true and may or may not wipe us out in god only knows how many thousand years.


It's a lot sooner than that. The next 50-100 years look like they'll be enough to cause worldwide devastation.

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Alex213]
    #5301670 -

Alex213 said:
You can have capitalism or you can have a habitable planet, but you can't have both.


Tell that to the people who were around Chernobyl in the communist Soviet Union.

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5301770 -

RandalFlagg said:
Alex213 said:
You can have capitalism or you can have a habitable planet, but you can't have both.


Tell that to the people who were around Chernobyl in the communist Soviet Union.


Furthermore, tell it to these guys.


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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Alex213]
    #5302355 -

Alex213 said:
I don't think it's popular among governments, because it's going to mean an enormous reduction in profits for big buisness.


I don't think that's it. It's not popular amongst governments because it would mean a massive change in lifestyle for citizens living in modern countries. What would modern society be like if we weren't able to drive very far, have products delivered to far-flung places, and our standard of living were drastically reduced? How would you like living in a society that was materially equivalent to the early 1900's?

What causes pollution is the fact that humans use a lot of stuff and a lot of energy. That computer you are using right now (which was made with all kinds of chemicals, metal, and plastic) is using energy which is polluting the environment. People in modern societies aren't going to give up their conveniences.

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5302369 -

the only thing in this world that generates more money than something that corrects a problem, is something that creates a problem.

the burning of fossil fuels, pollution of the air and water, the raping of the earth, all of this is actually a win-win for big business and government, at least in its current state.

Think of how much it would hurt the economy if there was no reason all of a sudden to buy bottled water, hepa-filters, water filters, the entire government recycling program, etc. Do we really want to hurt our economy by or own selfish instincts to make the earth look "pretty
and smell "nice?"

</sarcasm>


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: kotik]
    #5302382 -

Quote:
That computer you are using right now (which was made with all kinds of chemicals, metal, and plastic) is using energy which is polluting the environment. People in modern societies aren't going to give up their conveniences.


that is quite a stretch, considering how invisible the amount of energy is needed for a computer, compared to heating, cooling and lighting (in the context of home use). None of that even compares to industrial use.

Although I recognize the intention of the post, everyone is to blame. True. but there are supposed to be environmental regulations that stop the problems where they start - with companies that manufacture popular technologies that generate pollution. If the companies would reduce not only their own pollution in production, but also the pollution produced by their products, then it would have an exponential effect.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Alex213]
    #5302395 -

You can have capitalism or you can have a habitable planet, but you can't have both.

what about capitalism makes it incompatible with having a habitable planet?


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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Alex213]
    #5302549 -

Ford Working On 60 MPG Truck

February 14, 2006 2:30 a.m. EST


Matthew Borghese - All Headline News Staff Writer

New York, New York (AHN) - Ford is reportedly developing a "new form of automotive propulsion," which could dramatically change the automotive landscape.

Ford is said to be developing a "Hydraulic Hybrid" for implementation in it's F-150 series truck.

According to NewTechSpy, "the hydraulic hybrid could be the greatest innovation since the internal combustion engine itself."

The new engine differs from the conventional hybrid design. Currently a "hybrid" engine's main energy comes from gasoline which recharges batteries that move the car at low speeds.

In hydraulic systems, excess energy is stored in hydraulic cylinders, which have 3 times the capacity of a nickel metal hydride battery.

Ford is set to launch the hydraulic hybrid F-150 in August, 2008.
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7002397595


if ford comes out with an F-150 that gets 60mpg in 2008, I will trade in my Dodge (11mpg).


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: kotik]
    #5303434 -

kotik said:
Quote:
That computer you are using right now (which was made with all kinds of chemicals, metal, and plastic) is using energy which is polluting the environment. People in modern societies aren't going to give up their conveniences.


that is quite a stretch, considering how invisible the amount of energy is needed for a computer, compared to heating, cooling and lighting (in the context of home use). None of that even compares to industrial use.


Sure that little box you call a computer might not draw a shitload of power. But, think of the energy that was put into manufacturing that box and delivering it to market. And, you brought up a good point when you talked about the heating and cooling of homes. To do these things requires a large amount of energy.

Even the most avowed Greens amongst us use or consume stuff which causes pollution. I always find it hypocritical when they bitch about pollution yet they willingly partake in the modern conveniences which cause it.

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5303440 -

I prefer to wear warm clothes around the house rather than turning the heat up.


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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5303452 -

Paradigm said:
I prefer to wear warm clothes around the house rather than turning the heat up.


You live in California. I wasn't aware that you people out there had to turn the heat up.

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5303456 -

RandalFlagg said:
Paradigm said:
I prefer to wear warm clothes around the house rather than turning the heat up.


You live in California. I wasn't aware that you people out there had to turn the heat up.


It can actually get rather cold at night during the winter. Of course, it's still much better than the East Coast. Winter in California tends to be like Fall everywhere else.


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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5303471 -

Paradigm said:
It can actually get rather cold at night during the winter.


What...like 60 degrees God forbid?

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5303484 -

The low for tonight is 31 degrees.


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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5303495 -

Paradigm said:
The low for tonight is 31 degrees.


Not bad. Your low temperature rep is somewhat respectable. You still don't have shit on Pennsylvania though.

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5303899 -

Quote:
Sure that little box you call a computer might not draw a shitload of power. But, think of the energy that was put into manufacturing that box and delivering it to market.


yes, but at the same time consider how many steps a computer eliminates. It reduces the need for paper, travel-related pollution, and otherwise temporary items such as letters, ads, business cards, maps, etc.

Quote:
Even the most avowed Greens amongst us use or consume stuff which causes pollution. I always find it hypocritical when they bitch about pollution yet they willingly partake in the modern conveniences which cause it.



the bottom line is that we as humans look at pollution as being unnatural and bad, because it is bad for us. I have a feeling that with or without mankind and the pollution that goes along with mankind, the earth will go on spinning.

at least until we pull off some crazy nuclear winter shit that throws the entire planet off orbit or something.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: kotik]
    #5304041 -

you have to look at the atmosphere in literal terms. Lets say the atmosphere is a football field were each 1 yard is one %. Around 79% or 79 yards of this football field is just nitrogen. The rest up to the one yard line is oxygen and that last yard is other gases included CO2. The science world is trying to debt that about an inch of this football field explains changes in temperature for the world on data that really isn't that accurate in terms of the history of there earth. I mean earth is pretty damn old and we only have accurate data for a blink of time and to say you can explain something from this blink is a ridiculous statement.

WB


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Edited by WhiteBunny (02/15/06 11:28 PM)

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: WhiteBunny]
    #5304094 -

agreed, although scientists can usually account for causes and effects, extrapolation of theories are for the most part, throwing darts at a blurry object, in the dark, with one eye open.

Although I cannot say that its hard for me to believe that all the extreme pollution created by industry is changing the environment. And given that the environment is pretty habitable in its current state, I don't think any change from where we are at now would be that great, as much of a fan I am of change.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5307271 -

RandalFlagg said:
kotik said:
Quote:
That computer you are using right now (which was made with all kinds of chemicals, metal, and plastic) is using energy which is polluting the environment. People in modern societies aren't going to give up their conveniences.


that is quite a stretch, considering how invisible the amount of energy is needed for a computer, compared to heating, cooling and lighting (in the context of home use). None of that even compares to industrial use.


Sure that little box you call a computer might not draw a shitload of power. But, think of the energy that was put into manufacturing that box and delivering it to market. And, you brought up a good point when you talked about the heating and cooling of homes. To do these things requires a large amount of energy.

Even the most avowed Greens amongst us use or consume stuff which causes pollution. I always find it hypocritical when they bitch about pollution yet they willingly partake in the modern conveniences which cause it.


While technology doesn't have us at a point where we can make abundant energy with insignificant amounts of pollution (i.e. cold fusion), green energy sources DO exist, we just don't use them. There is also incredible technology out there, such as lights and types of insulation, that drastically reduce the amounts of energy people use.

Were we as committed to making use of this technology and developing better versions of it as we were to, say, building condos in florida or putting up new walmarts, we could basically be a green country. The Ecosystem can handle pollution in small doses. It is the unbridled releasing of greenhouse gases into the air and nitrogen into the water that surpasses the ecosystem's ability to process it.

My point is this, if we were more efficient about saving energy and making use of green technology, we could live our modern lifestyle without damaging our ecosystem.


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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil 
- Thomas Paine

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