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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: rawtoxic]
    #5293347 -

I honestly don't give a fuck if the weather changes. I will drive a gas guzzling Escalada or a ferrari. And when the shit hits the fun, I'll have my AK ready to plunder others and keep me safe.


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http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: downforpot]
    #5293359 -

I'm not a believer in Global Warming. We didn't even keep records from back in the 1800's, we started sometime in the early 1900's, and even that was innacurate. Tell someone to go outside and test if it's windy or not isn't affective as when we started monitoring it scientifically around the 1956's and 70's, that's when the best records were recorded. There's Urban warming. They put these sensors at airports generally to tell temperature rises and monitor it, well you've got a lot of hot asphault, there are other things too that disprove that the temperature shifts of less than .5degree were not caused by actual global warming...

I can't remember what I was trying to say because I'm really stoned. It took me a long time, somewhere up by asphault is when I forgot, and had to figure out a way to get to this excuse, then gave up.


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OP is now RP!  Read about it here!


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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Maverick]
    #5293625 -

DRTMaverick said:
I'm not a believer in Global Warming. We didn't even keep records from back in the 1800's, we started sometime in the early 1900's, and even that was innacurate.


Apparently you aren't aware that scientists are able to determine global temperatures from back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth. Record-keeping isn't necessary when you've got the polar ice sheets and the geological record to tell you the history of the earth's climate.


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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5294060 -

Paradigm said:
WhiteBunny said:
Global Warming is not a fact it is an opinion.


In your own post, you give data about warming trends. Just what do you think global warming is? There's a difference between saying global warming is not caused by humans vs. saying it doesn't exist.


Global warming is a constant heating of the earth a warming trend or cycle is a temporary heating of the earth followed by a cooling trend. Global Warming is a term used to describe the belief that human man made CO2 is causing the Global warming. I doubt if you were to ask someone what Global Warming was caused by and they believed in Global Warming that they would say something other than man and/or fossil fuels.

WB


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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: WhiteBunny]
    #5294735 -

Quote:
I doubt if you were to ask someone what Global Warming was caused by and they believed in Global Warming that they would say something other than man and/or fossil fuels.


On the contrary, if they were scientifically competent, they would readily admit that volcanic and solar activity contribute a great deal to it.


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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: WhiteBunny]
    #5295451 -

WhiteBunny said:
Global Warming is a term used to describe the belief that human man made CO2 is causing the Global warming.

WB


So which part don't you believe?

If you don't believe that an atmosphere consisting of a mixture of gases, including CO2, is the primary way our planet maintains its temperate climate, then Visit the moon, or mars, or any other astral body that doesn't have an atmosphere. Note how fucking cold it is. The greenhouse effect is how our planet stays warm, naturally. You would be hard pressed to find someone who disagrees with this fact, although I'm sure there's someone out there on some "climate research project" funded by Exxon who would.

If you don't believe that an increased amount of C02 in the atmosphere leads to increasing average global temperature, than you don't really understand the fundamental facts about greenhouse gases. C02 particles literally "trap" heat in the earths atmoshpere instead of allowing it to escape. More C02 particles means more trapped heat.

If you don't believe that the burning of fossil fuels releases C02, than you probably failed high school chemistry. If you burn carbon, you get C02.

So I don't get what part you don't believe. Burning fossil fuels releases C02 right? And C02 goes into the atmosphere, right? And more C02 means more greenhouse gases, right? And more greenhouse gas means higher temperature, right?

I don't see how anyone can argue with this process, unless they believe science itself is nothing more than a worldwide conspiracy to take money away from oil companies.

P.S. SUV's would still be lame even if they were fuel efficient.


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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil 
- Thomas Paine

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5295585 -

I believe the right-wing view is any increase is completly natural and mankind has had no effect. (So capitalism can continue as it is forever)

The right-wingers on the board often refer to a "list of 17,000 scientists" who allegedly said global warming didn't exist. Unfortunately when you read the names of the "scientists" you noticed Ginger Spice was on it.

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Maverick]
    #5296085 -

Quote:
I'm not a believer in Global Warming. We didn't even keep records from back in the 1800's, we started sometime in the early 1900's, and even that was innacurate. Tell someone to go outside and test if it's windy or not isn't affective as when we started monitoring it scientifically around the 1956's and 70's, that's when the best records were recorded. There's Urban warming. They put these sensors at airports generally to tell temperature rises and monitor it, well you've got a lot of hot asphault, there are other things too that disprove that the temperature shifts of less than .5degree were not caused by actual global warming...


A prominent climatologist recently resigned from a government panel on global warming because his research showed exactly what you are talking about. His contributions to a report were edited out and replaced with more "politically friendly" conclusions (i.e. stating that global climate change is man-made) so he resigned.

He basically stated that man-made local climate change is a major problem and that global climate change is probably due to other factors, besides the fact that it cannot even be measured with good statistical significance at this point.

Anyone who says the US government is out to downplay global warming does not understand the scientific/political landscape. The US government is spending unprecedented amounts of money on global warming research for the express purpose of linking it to human factors. They do this because it is politically popular to fund the research. Any scientist will tell you that if you throw enough money into an area of research, you will generate papers and findings that you are looking for, regardless of if they are true or not.

Nowadays, half of the journal "Nature" is nothing but global warming papers. This isn't because there is no other important life-science research going on. It is because global warming is what scientists call "hot" right now (no pun intended). This means that funding is pouring in and scientists who don't usually study this area begin to flock to it. Journals then begin to publish all of these papers, blowing it up even more and making the area even hotter.

"Hot" areas of research are notorious for turning out questionable and even falsified papers (stem cells rings a bell). There was actually a scientific study done last year that proved this.

Edited by Catalysis (02/13/06 08:15 PM)

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Catalysis]
    #5297618 -

Anyone who says the US government is out to downplay global warming does not understand the scientific/political landscape. The US government is spending unprecedented amounts of money on global warming research for the express purpose of linking it to human factors.

Are you sure about this? Wasn't there a big hullabaloo recently about the US demanding the removal of certain phrases from a climate change treaty to deny the existence of man-made global warming?

"Hot" areas of research are notorious for turning out questionable and even falsified papers (stem cells rings a bell).

That depends on the science. If the science is correct the fact that it's a "hot" area is irrelevant. I don't think there's a serious scientist on the planet who doubts that man has contributed to global warming. You usually find most of the "scientists" who deny it are being funded by oil companies.

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Alex213]
    #5297730 -

This is a little off topic, but the SUV haters have always kind of bothered me.

First off, a lot of SUVs aren't even that bad, many of them actually have smaller engines like minivans that don't use an excessive amount of gas.

Secondly, only a small amount of pollution comes from SUVs. When you consider the number of smaller cars out there, they contribute a HUGE amount to the problem, SUVs are just somewhat worse.

Even if everyone switched to smaller cars, the difference made would be negligible. People just like to have someone else to blame, so that they can feel like they're the good guys, and that there's someone else out there who's REALLY doing wrong. That way they can feel smug and superior without really doing anything significant to help the environment... after all, it's all those SUV driver's faults, not mine.

...and no, I don't drive an SUV, the only car I drive is my mom's 1988 Mazda 323, which is pretty easy on the gas.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Phluck]
    #5297770 -

My hatred of SUV's is much like that Hunter S Thompson quote about hustlers that you have in your sig. It's not so much the pollution that bugs me. It's the kind of people who drive them. SUV's just seem to attract rude, inconsiderate people.


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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5297785 -

I don't know if that's really accurate though. I've only known a few people who drove SUVs, a couple of them were just regular friendly people, and one of them was the ex-fire chief in my city who now runs a firefighters museum that I helped him setup, and one of the awesomest old dudes with cool stories that I've ever met.

There are probably assholes with SUVs out there, but I don't know that they make up the majority.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5298130 -

Paradigm said:
My hatred of SUV's is much like that Hunter S Thompson quote about hustlers that you have in your sig.  It's not so much the pollution that bugs me.  It's the kind of people who drive them.  SUV's just seem to attract rude, inconsiderate people.


Ya, like this dude here:

Quote:
downforpot said:
I honestly don't give a fuck if the weather changes. I will drive a gas guzzling Escalada or a ferrari. And when the shit hits the fun, I'll have my AK ready to plunder others and keep me safe.


I agree with Phluck though, its true that, in the absolute, pollution coming from SUVs comes in extremely less quantities than pollution coming from other cars. But on the other hand, SUVs are on the top of the polluting pyramid (for automobiles) and the fact that they're so popular in the US shows that there's a big lack of respect for the environment and this demonstrates that caring for our biosphere is the last of worries to some. Its a very selfish attitude IMO, how people just don't give a shit about anything except the fulfillment or their personal desires. Shameful...

And SUVs in cities is a big :thumbdown:



Also, is it only in the US that some people think humans aren't responsible for the global warming and for the devastation of certain ecosystems? I mean in France pretty much nobody believes otherwise...Its just really surprising to me to see how certain people are fooling themselves...or are being (probably willingly) fooled by others, such as Exxon brainstorming groups, who of course have very deep ties with the Bush dynasty, and who come up with the ideas that attempt to refute man's responsibility in global warming.


Anyways, on a sidenote, there's a commercial for Total (the french oil company) that just started airing on TV which made me giggle, their punchline is: "For you, our energy is inexhaustible."  :smirk:


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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Alex213]
    #5299491 -

I believe the right-wing view is any increase is completly natural and mankind has had no effect. (So capitalism can continue as it is forever)

capitalism is not incompatible with protecting the environment or responding sensibly to global climate change.

our current system awards government subsidies to the fossil fuel industry and allows those who use fossil fuels to externalize much of their true cost. neither of these is how capitalism works.


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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: wilshire]
    #5299544 -

wilshire said:
I believe the right-wing view is any increase is completly natural and mankind has had no effect. (So capitalism can continue as it is forever)

capitalism is not incompatible with protecting the environment or responding sensibly to global climate change.

our current system awards government subsidies to the fossil fuel industry and allows those who use fossil fuels to externalize much of their true cost. neither of these is how capitalism works.


Abosultely. We tweak capitalism and the law books to reward our current corporate system...we could just as easily tweak capitalism to reward a system that was based on sustainable production.

In addition, a lot of people don't realize that if the government wasn't so committed to the oil industry, there would be a lot of economic incentive to pollute less. After all, energy costs a lot of money. The technology exists to produce more energy for less money with a fraction of the pollution...and I'm not talking about nuclear power. I'm talkin bout steam, wind, solar. I'm talkin bout energy efficient natural insulation for homes and power saving lights. I'm talkin bout green design techniques instead of cutting corners when constructing new buildings. I'm talkin bout compostin. I'm talkin bout cars that run on used vegetable oil that fast food companies have to pay money to have dumped. I'm talkin about efficient, clean energy. It's not a myth, its actually the natural order of planet Earth.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil 
- Thomas Paine

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5300026 -

SUV or ferrari? neither...gimme a Buggatti Veyron please! 1001HP 16 cylinders mmm...PURE POWER.


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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Liquid_Dimension]
    #5300197 -

LiQuiD_DiMenSioN said:
SUV or ferrari? neither...gimme a Buggatti Veyron please! 1001HP 16 cylinders mmm...PURE POWER.


Well, since we're expanding the wish list, make mine black.


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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Alex213]
    #5300291 -

Quote:
I don't think there's a serious scientist on the planet who doubts that man has contributed to global warming. You usually find most of the "scientists" who deny it are being funded by oil companies.


You can sit around and tell yourself that until you are blue in the face but that won't make it true. To the contrary, many of these scientists are shunned by the government for espousing politically unpopular opinions.

If you are really interested in the arguments against global-level anthropogenic climate shifts, you can watch the below movie made by highly distinguished Canadian researchers.

http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?ide=3

You guys even admit that global warming is politically popular. Exclusive58 even says that everyone in his country believes CO2 emmissions are responsible for global climate change in the past 20 years, even when scientific evidence cannot rule out the same factors which caused climate shifts for the past 4 billion years.

To me, it is absurd that everyone is so concerned about this when we have real problems with pollution and localized anthropogenic changes in the ecosystem which pose a far greater threat than a theory which may or may not prove to be true and may or may not wipe us out in god only knows how many thousand years.

By the way, what ever happened to the global cooling scare?

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: wilshire]
    #5301563 -

capitalism is not incompatible with protecting the environment or responding sensibly to global climate change.


As Einstein remarked, you cannot solve a problem with the same thinking you used to create it.

You can have capitalism or you can have a habitable planet, but you can't have both.

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Re: Should we all just drive SUV's and Ferraris? [Re: Alex213]
    #5301570 -

Alex213 said:
You can have capitalism or you can have a habitable planet, but you can't have both.


False.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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