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why do women in middle east cover their faces?
    #5221402 -

and can't that part of their culture also provide for men disguising themselves as something...and in effect become like a spy or even a dangerous warrior?

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: TameMe]
    #5221734 -

im sure that that has happened before man.

They make them wear veils because a woman in islam BELONGS to a man and islamic men dont want people to covet their wives. Around the house they wont wear the veil. Besides all that they live in the desert it probrobly helps them beat the heat too. Peace

blaze2


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"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: blaze2]
    #5221974 -

Well, they also need to be escorted by men at all times dont they? So, if they were to dress up as a women/hide their face - they would need a male escort with them at all times when in public

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: TameMe]
    #5223160 -

It is due to a bunch of male dominated bullshit. It is class persecution.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5223461 -

What is a blind date over there like?


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: Sclorch]
    #5223486 -

There is no such thing I imagine. If women are mere personal property then all of them are claimed...unless you got some dough and want to negotiate.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: TameMe]
    #5223619 -

"they" misinterpreted some age old scriptures.. :P


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: Gomp]
    #5223846 -

Gomp said:
"they" misinterpreted some age old scriptures.. :P


seems to me that the men are insecure...

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: TameMe]
    #5223973 -

What happened to being open-minded the Islamic religion has been around just about as long as christians which in the entire scope of things is not really that long at all. thats just the way they do things and have been doing them for a very long time. I do admit that some countries interpret the religion in different levels of laws and ways of life but again who are we to judge them.

Alot of us forget that christians have some very weird ways of doing things also.


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"We can't stop here man, this is bat country"
"There is acid in the beer in the red cups"

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: TameMe]
    #5224099 -

If a conservative Islamic woman does not wear her veil then she is a slut. The men are not held by the same standard same as in the U.S. Analogously, women that sleep around here are sluts while a man that sleeps around is smooth. What is the difference?

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: Linuxman]
    #5224101 -

Linuxman said:
What happened to being open-minded the Islamic religion has been around just about as long as christians which in the entire scope of things is not really that long at all. thats just the way they do things and have been doing them for a very long time. I do admit that some countries interpret the religion in different levels of laws and ways of life but again who are we to judge them.

Alot of us forget that christians have some very weird ways of doing things also.


All religions have "weird ways of doing things." These "weird things" dont become a problem until they begin to infringe upon the rights of those who are not even part of the religion, or who are part of it but cannot speak out against this aspect of it without persecution. Examples: Muslims killing non-muslims because "Allah has approved of this killing in certain circumstances," the Jews condeming Jesus to death for speaking out against aspects of Judaism, or the Christian explorers persecuting the natives of north and south America because they interpereted halucinagenic plant rituals as satanic.


--------------------
-CUBErt
:cubie::levitate::cubie:

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: TameMe]
    #5224250 -

In my visits to North African countries with Islamic populations of almost 100%, practically no women there wear the veil, and it'd be absurd to tell them that they need to have a man there with them to go out in public. The situation most definitely isn't the same as in the US (as here women are much more arrogant and aggravating, mostly) but to my knowledge, the majority of highly Islamic countries are not represented by our stereotypes.

It seems to be only a few radical Islamic countries, like Saudi Arabia and Iran, that actually persecute women like this, and not Islam per se, so I would endeavor to say that the issue itself and resulting enforcement are predominantly cultural and country-dependent. There are also differing schools of thought in Islam on the subject, based on how liberal or strictly the people interpret the Qu'ran and/ or Hadith. Quite a few Muslims seem to see it as more of remnant left in the Qu'ran/ Hadith from a long-passed time, just like the Old and New Testaments are filled with, except that some radically Islamic countries actually enforce it. If America did the same with the Bible, we'd be just as backwards as Saudi Arabia.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: Ravus]
    #5224296 -

Ravus said:
...The situation most definitely isn't the same as in the US (as here women are much more arrogant and aggravating, mostly) but to my knowledge...


arrogant and aggravating???  :smirk:
this remark proves that we should be just as worried about how women are treated in the U.S.

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: TameMe]
    #5224538 -

one of mohammeds wives would cover her face so as not to have men leering at her. other women thought that since thats what the prophets wife does then so would they. it was so they would be respected who they are not how they look.
read 'Muhammad: A Biography of the Prophet' by karen armstrong. she gives a good explanation(much better than mine).

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: TameMe]
    #5225798 -

Nowadays, young women do it, because it 'en vogue'. The even put make-up on under the veil, wear high heeled boots and go studying and working...
All this doesn't fit with the veil idea.
Remember in france, they forbid to wear veils at school.
Here in germany, the forbid it at least for teachers.

What a bullshit I tell you. The women pretend to believe so strongly in the Koran, so they carry veils and are PROUD of it ! But then they do all the other stuff which contradicts with the 'role of women' in the verses.

Bigotry, I laugh my ass off !


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5226439 -

Wow, this thread is so full of misinformation and stereotypes...

When I took my Cultural Antropology class last summer my teacher told us about when he did his research in Morocco, and we read the book "Guests of the Sheik" which was written by the wife of an antropologist. It was about the years they spent in a small rural village in southern iraq around the 1950's.

First off, very few Middle eastern cultures FORCE their women to cover their faces (ala the Burka like the Taliban did). The head wraps are called "abayas" and are indeed worn as a form of modesty.

When a woman uses her abaya to acutally cover her face she is making a CLAIM TO HONOR! It is a symbol of status. If a lower class woman covers her face, she will likely hear remarks such as "who does she think she is" as she walks through town.

And it is not true that men can simply go around and uncover their flesh freely. Men are also expected to dress modestly and are not allowed to show their bare legs or torso. If they did then they would be considered half naked, just like if a woman took her top off in public in the US.

Of course there are thousands of different cultural regions in the middle east, each with differing standards for modest dress. In places where western culture has had an impact, you will be more likely to see men wearing shorts and western style clothes, but in most places this is still looked down upon.

In the book, the wife writes about how she had to integrate as a female into middle eastern culture and describes the huge role that women play. It is true that they cannot just leave home freely without a male, but they are by no means isolated. The women will get together quite often and gossip. They are responsible for preparing food for feasts, and have much clout when it comes to marraiges. I can't remember too many examples of what else they do, but they are certainly not powerless slaves of their husbands. Oh, and most middle and lower class men will only have one wife.


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http://www.myspace.com/sarasotafnb
http://www.wcwtampa.com

Edited by dr0mni (01/26/06 05:16 PM)

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: TameMe]
    #5226443 -

Because the men are jealous that women are beautiful. So beautiful in fact, that its "distracting."

To some, women are objects of pleasure,and equate that to evil/sin. They wear a shawl and cloak so the contours of the female body and face do not influence society in "sinful" and "evil" ways.

Basically, women are so powerful, we (men) are at their mercy, and so we MUST contain it. Its too bad the majority of women are conditioned at childhood to play a role; otherwise they might run the world.

Edited by psyka (01/26/06 05:47 PM)

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: dr0mni]
    #5226460 -

dr0mni said:
Wow, this thread is so full of misinformation and stereotypes...

When I took my Cultural Antropology class last summer my teacher told us about when he did his research in Morocco, and we read the book "Guests of the Sheik" which was written by the wife of an antropologist. It was about the years they spent in a small rural village in southern iraq around the 1950's.

First off, very few Middle eastern cultures FORCE their women to cover their faces (ala the Burka like the Taliban did). The head wraps are called "abayas" and are indeed worn as a form of modesty.

When a woman uses her abaya to acutally cover her face she is making a CLAIM TO HONOR! It is a symbol of status. If a lower class woman covers her face, she will likely hear remarks such as "who does she think she is" as she walks through town.

And it is not true that men can simply go around and uncover their flesh freely. Men are also expected to dress modestly and are not allowed to show their bare legs or torso. If they did then they would be considered half naked, just like if a woman took her top off in public in the US.

Of course there are thousands of different cultural regions in the middle east, each with differing standards for modest dress. In places where western culture has had an impact, you will be more likely to see men wearing shorts and western style clothes, but in most places this is still looked down upon.


I'd suppose the desert has something to do with it, too :P


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: bit_slice]
    #5226464 -

It's part of their religion. Who's to say they're wrong? The women usually don't oppose it because they practice the religion and know that it's part of it. It's the feminists every where else that go nuts and put words in those people's mouths. That's why I think people shoudl just leave them alone. I think they would be much happuier that way too. They just hate american influence. Just like we hate foreign influence


--------------------
“Let’s put it this way – to lump psychedelic mushrooms into the same group as methamphetamine is like lumping the Bible into the same group as Mein Kampf.
I mean shit; they’re both books, right?”

Joe Rogan


R.I.P. - "Bones" - One of the greatest people I've ever had the pleasure of getting to know and become friends with.

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Re: why do women in middle east cover their faces? [Re: cookeman]
    #5226557 -

I think you have been misinformed.

Many of the oppressive practices used against women in Saudi Arabia are not based in the Islamic religion, but in the culture. The laws of many Saudi Arabian countries discriminate against women, and render them helpless to oppose their husbands/families.

While some women may participate in their own oppression out of piety, many more do so out of fear of reprisal. Western feminists are not "putting words in their mouths" when they expose savage honor killings committed against women who were raped, or remind people in the U.S. that Saudi women are still not allowed to vote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing

Quote:
Saudi women have limited freedoms. Without written permission from a male guardian, they may not travel, get an education or work. Regardless of permissions, they are not allowed to drive, mix with men in public or leave home without covering themselves with black cloaks, called abayas.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6228405



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