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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Nostradamus and The End of the World
    #521900 - 01/16/02 02:38 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Nostradamus predicted an end of the world in 1999.

Did it end? No.

Did the Nostradamus believers change their tune? No.


Edward Cayce predicted that Atlantis along with death rays would be discoverd in 1968.

Was it found? No.

Did the Cayce believers change their tune? No.


Richard Hoagland stated that the 1976 picture taken by NASA of the Cydonia region of Mars was actually an alien artifact surrounded by pramids in alignment with those of Egypt. This area was rephotographed last year. The photo shows no anomolies, no face, no city or pyramids.

Was it a face? No.

Did the Hoagland followers change their tune? No.


This story has been repeated numerous times throughout history. A group or prophet makes a prediction that fails to materialize. What follows is one of the following:

The Prophet (or his disciples, if deceased) states that he misinterpretted the sign/s and lays out a new timeline.

Comes up with a new story about how the spiritual light from his evolved followers helped to change the future and avert the disaster.

Points to some mini-disaster and says "See what I told you?"

Or quietly moves on to some new phenomonen...

This will happen with shroomism's dimensional shift in 2003 and McKenna's End of History in 2012.

And of course, not one single believer will come out and say " I was gullible and wrong to take that story on face value."






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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World [Re: Swami]
    #521909 - 01/16/02 02:58 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

We will see now wont we?


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InvisibleNGC4414
unknowable

Registered: 10/31/01
Posts: 174
Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World [Re: Swami]
    #521916 - 01/16/02 03:09 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Since Nostradamus' prophesies were all vaugley written riddles, they can be applied to all sorts of event based on the way someone reads into them.

It seems that most if not all generations throughout history expect (or wish for) something substantial to happen in their lifetime. Who is to say when something earth shattering is going to occur.

That being said, you can't say 100% that nothing will happen.


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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World [Re: Swami]
    #521923 - 01/16/02 03:15 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Wasn't there a lot of things that did come true, especially from Nostradamus? I don't really know as I don't keep up with the prophets these days. ; )

I suppose people will always believe what they want to believe, and I don't think that's a bad thing, nor do I think it makes any real statements about the person. We all believe in intangibles. Americans believe that they're going to wipe out terrorism. Is that going to happen? Probably not. It's sort of sad in a way, but life goes on.
It's also something of a gamble we take. We can take the safe bet that these things are garbage if we decide to. Or, we can be the high rollers and put it all on the line. Think of how cool you'd feel if these things actually came true. I'd rather die like that than sitting there saying "No, this isn't how he predicted it! Where're the locusts huh? Show me some locusts and then I'll be impressed."


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World [Re: NGC4414]
    #521929 - 01/16/02 03:23 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Since Nostradamus' prophesies were all vaugley written riddles, they can be applied to all sorts of event based on the way someone reads into them.
You will get no argument from me on that. However, this famous quatrain was one of the few to actually give a solid date.

The year thousand nine hundred ninety nine seven [ month / months ],
From the sky there will come a great King [ of fright / who chases away fright ]:
To bring back to life the great King of Angolmois,
Before after [ Mars / March ] to reign by good luck.

L'an mil neuf cens nonante neuf sept mois,
Du ciel viendra vn grand Roy d'effrayeur :
Resusciter le grand Roy d'Angolmois,
Auant apres Mars regner par bon heur.

It seems that most if not all generations throughout history expect (or wish for) something substantial to happen in their lifetime. Who is to say when something earth shattering is going to occur.
No one - which is my point.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World [Re: Ulysees]
    #521934 - 01/16/02 03:37 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I suppose people will always believe what they want to believe, and I don't think that's a bad thing

Like slavery, because Negroes were believed to not have a soul like the white man?

Like all the people who had their lives ruined because they were believed to Communists in the McCarthy era?

Like the Germans believing the Jews were the scourge of the planet during the Holocaust?

Like the terrorists that believed they would go to Moslem heaven by killing Americans in a kamikaze attack?

Like the people that would put you away for 20 years for growing fungus in your closet because they believe you are a danger to society?

Like my acquaintance who committed suicide to meet the mothership out by the comet...

I find unsubstantiated belief to be for the weak-minded and v-e-r-y dangerous as it can easily lead to irrational acts.


And just where are the locusts?


--------------------



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Anonymous

Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World [Re: Swami]
    #521957 - 01/16/02 04:02 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

And Nostradamus did not predict the end of the world in 1999...I assume you are reffering to this quatrain:

The year 1999 seven months,
From the sky will come a great King of terror:
To resurrect the great King of Angolmois,
Before after Mars to reign by good luck


This could be interpreted in any number of ways.

Here we have Quatrain VI-97

At forty-five degrees the sky will burn,
Fire to approach the great new city:
In an instant a great scattered flame will leap up,
When one will want to demand proof of the Normans.


New York City lies at 40.5 latitiude. Is it also coincidence that the region on Mars known as Cydonia where the purported monuments were found is roughly at 40N 5W?
It is interesting to note - that the Vikings, i.e. the 'Normans', are historically inseparable from the date AD 911, numerically resonating with the date of the attacks (9/11), for this was when the Carolingian king, Charles the Simple made Normandy a duchy under Rollo. Also, it is amusing to notice that the Transportation Secretary of the US who is in charge of overseeing the airlines and such is Norman Mineta at this time - when people are wanting his assurance that air travel is safe (i.e. demanding 'proof of Norman').

INCANTATION OF THE LAW AGAINST INEPT CRITICS

Let those who read this verse consider it profoundly,
Let the profane and the ignorant herd keep away:
And far away all Astrologers, Idiots and Barbarians,
May he who does otherwise be subject to the sacred rite.


In reply to:

Richard Hoagland stated that the 1976 picture taken by NASA of the Cydonia region of Mars was actually an alien artifact surrounded by pramids in alignment with those of Egypt. This area was rephotographed last year. The photo shows no anomolies, no face, no city or pyramids.




Oh really? What's this?
You may want to look at this also
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/space/09/03/mars.viking/index.html

In reply to:

Edward Cayce predicted that Atlantis along with death rays would be discoverd in 1968.

Was it found? No.




Perhaps Edgar Cayce just guessed the wrong time. You can't be 100% accurate telling the future. Anyway..how do you know Atlantis hasn't been found? Several ancient underwater cities have been discovered in the past few years. Such as this one
and this one

:tongue: :wink:


Edited by Anonymous (01/16/02 04:10 AM)


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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World [Re: Swami]
    #521969 - 01/16/02 04:18 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I suppose people will always believe what they want to believe, and I don't think that's a bad thing


Well, that statement was refering to people believing in random things like psychics, prophets, christianity... but yes swami, exactly like all those things you mentioned. Aren't blanket statements fun?

Let's see...
On one side of the scale we have a regular guy sitting in his living room believing that the world will end in whatever year for whatever reason. On the other side of the scale we have bin Laden believing that America is evil.
Everything is fairly balanced so far (if you don't count the fact that one is a regular fellow and the other is a world renowned terrorist).

Now, here's where things get tricky... I'll try and take it slow for you swami...

The next day one of those people talks on the internet before he goes to work. The other guy sends hijacked planes into buildings.

Well swami, I guess they are exactly the same. Who would've thought?

Keep up the good work. :wink:


--------------------


Edited by Ulysees (01/16/02 04:20 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World [Re: Swami]
    #521970 - 01/16/02 04:19 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

In reply to:

Ulysees: Show me some locusts and then I'll be impressed."




In reply to:

Swami: And just where are the locusts?




The locusts?
They are Here
And here
And here
And I'm sure in other places but I can't do all your research for you.


Edited by Anonymous (01/16/02 04:26 AM)


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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World [Re: Ulysees]
    #521975 - 01/16/02 04:25 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

>I suppose people will always believe what they want to believe, and I don't think that's a bad thing

Oh ya, I also had "bad" in italics. It's actually a fairly important detail and shouldn't be neglected when quoting someone. (I thought it looked odd. It really throws off the whole dynamic of the statement.)


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OfflineArchDruid
addict
Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 268
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World [Re: ]
    #521977 - 01/16/02 04:26 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I tell you one thing, Im going to be really high all of 2003, so my dimension will shift!


--------------------
" I have decided to become an example for others, although I have never been one for moderation. I have decided never to eat LSD while asleep, never to refrain while awake, and to never eat less than 10 hits at a time."


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World [Re: Ulysees]
    #521997 - 01/16/02 04:44 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

The next day one of those people talks on the internet before he goes to work. The other guy sends hijacked planes into buildings.

Well swami, I guess they are exactly the same. Who would've thought?

Yes, one guy at Rancho San Marguerita (i.e. Heaven's gate). was the normal guy on the internet (he WAS a computer software engineer) commits suicide with cyanide, and the Moslem believer commits suicide with an airplane.

Now, here's where things get tricky... I'll try and take it slow for you swami...
Ah, there is that unmitigated love that I often feel from the spiritually advanced on this board.

Let's see? Both people kill themselves because of some unsubstaniated belief relating to the after-life and you see no correlation?





--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World [Re: ]
    #522011 - 01/16/02 05:06 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

At forty-five degrees the sky will burn,
Fire to approach the great new city:
In an instant a great scattered flame will leap up,
When one will want to demand proof of the Normans.

New York City lies at 40.5 latitiude.
But not at 45 degrees. Nor does the quatrain suggest that the 45 is a map coordinate. A building could be tipping at a 45 degree angle. Also somewhat along that latitude are San Francicso, Chicago also new cities and even London, though not so new. So what? Some city that has a fire will lie at some latitude around the world except for the northermost and southernmost frigid regions. There is no time frame given nor a longitude.

Is it also coincidence that the region on Mars known as Cydonia where the purported monuments were found is roughly at 40N 5W?
Coincidental with what?

It is interesting to note - that the Vikings, i.e. the 'Normans', are historically inseparable from the date AD 911, numerically resonating with the date of the attacks (9/11), for this was when the Carolingian king, Charles the Simple made Normandy a duchy under Rollo. Also, it is amusing to notice that the Transportation Secretary of the US who is in charge of overseeing the airlines and such is Norman Mineta at this time - when people are wanting his assurance that air travel is safe (i.e. demanding 'proof of Norman').
Woo boy, you can sure stretch them thin, can't you? I appreciate your powers to associate unrelated objects, but that has nothing to do with logic. The name of the Normans whether in reference to the French or the Vikings has nothing to do with the Mideast connection nor NYC. Your numerology bit with the date is incredibly weak.

Oh really? What's this?
You may want to look at this also
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/space/09/03/mars.viking/index.html

Yes. More non-desript pictures that look nothing like a face. And your point is...?

Perhaps Edgar Cayce just guessed the wrong time. You can't be 100% accurate telling the future.
How about any degree of accuracy at all? Guessing is not prophecy, nor are vague ramblings that could be applied to thousands of situations. No one made him say 1968. That was of his own volition so he needs no defense. He was wrong - period!




--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World [Re: Swami]
    #522014 - 01/16/02 05:17 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Yes. More non-desript pictures that look nothing like a face. And your point is...?

My point is that you said:
"The photo shows no anomolies, no face, no city or pyramids."

Those pictures look like anomolies to me. In fact, I'd say it looks a lot like a face.

How about any degree of accuracy at all? Guessing is not prophecy, nor are vague ramblings that could be applied to thousands of situations. No one made him say 1968. That was of his own volition so he needs no defense. He was wrong - period!

Ok...so he was wrong. Big deal. Don't forget the fact that he healed thousands of people through very unconvential methods after some of the world's best doctors could not do anything. In many cases some people were sure to die as there were no known cures for what they had, and Casey was able to prescribe a specific treatment regimen that brought them back to perfect health. Please don't tell me I am bullshiting as this is very well documented. There is even an Edgar Casey hospital in Virginia.


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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World [Re: Swami]
    #522025 - 01/16/02 05:36 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

>Well swami, I guess they are exactly the same. Who would've thought?
Yes, one guy at Rancho San Marguerita (i.e. Heaven's gate). was the normal guy on the internet (he WAS a computer software engineer) commits suicide with cyanide, and the Moslem believer commits suicide with an airplane.

Who said the guy killed himself when he got home? I mentioned nothing about your aquaintence who killed himself in the Heavens Gate cult. (Who's leaping to rash conclusions now? "He WAS a computer software engineer." That doesn't qualify you as normal my friend.)
Even so, people kill themselves every day. Many kill themselves because their extremely normal reality is too hard for them to handle. Wait a second, I'm not talking about average random people here, I'm in fact talking about members of an elite group of scientists who got stranded on Antarctica! (I'm refering to the way you change my general statements into specific events for purpose of furthering your arguement.)

>Now, here's where things get tricky... I'll try and take it slow for you swami...
Ah, there is that unmitigated love that I often feel from the spiritually advanced on this board.


Not just spiritually advanced apparently.

>Let's see? Both people kill themselves because of some unsubstaniated belief relating to the after-life and you see no correlation?

Why don't you pull another suicide stat out of your ass to prove your point. Make sure you grab some common sense while you're up there.


--------------------


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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World [Re: Swami]
    #522027 - 01/16/02 05:40 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Woo boy, you can sure stretch them thin, can't you? I appreciate your powers to associate unrelated objects, but that has nothing to do with logic.

?
Nice Swami... Nice. I should've just read that and quoted it back to you. It sounds like you could've argued against yourself quite well.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World
    #522028 - 01/16/02 05:41 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Why do you constantly compare my philosophies with that of suicide cults and brainwashed genocidal masses?
Finally a real question and a point of dialogue. Please answer without explanation, each of the following true/false questions. Leave your essay until the end of your post.

1. The people who found answers in the Heaven's Gate philosophy were attracted to this belief system because it filled a need in them and spoke to their heart.

True or false?

2. The Heaven's Gate philosophy was founded on a set of unprovable assumptions.

True or false?

3. The Heaven's Gate disciples believed that they were on a spiritually advanced path.

True or false?

4. The group as a whole was of below average intelligence.

True or false?

5. The Heaven's Gate philosopy spoke of suicide in the early days of it's forming.

True or false?

Now you're comparing me to Hitler... how illogical can you get?
Not once did I compare you to Hitler. I used the Holocaust as a powerful example in showing the dangers of taking someone else's viewpoint unquestioned. I am comparing the gullibility of people who take your ideas at face value with the gullibility of much of the WWII German nation.

A much more accurate comparison would be the gullible masses who panicked during the Halloween broadcast of "War of the Worlds". But that does not have as much impact as no one was seriously hurt in the USA. Although a rebroadcast in South America led outraged listeners (when they found it to be a hoax) to kill the disc jockeys that put on the play.

It has been stated by many that there is no danger in an unsubstantiated belief system and there certainly is. That is my point. I was not comparing your personality and motives to anyone else, only that you would like people to believe unverifiable stories and base their life and actions around said stories.




--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World [Re: Ulysees]
    #522031 - 01/16/02 05:50 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Why don't you pull another suicide stat out of your ass to prove your point. Make sure you grab some common sense while you're up there.

Someone I met in my line of work was not a stat pulled out of my ass. I never paid any attention to all his comet / mothership babblings until I saw his body on TV. Perhaps I could have helped, perhaps not.

Either way, my intentions are noble whether or not you like my style and demeanor.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World [Re: Swami]
    #522032 - 01/16/02 05:50 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Now, here's where things get tricky... I'll try and take it slow for you swami...

Ah, there is that unmitigated love that I often feel from the spiritually advanced on this board.


No, that 'love' you feel is frustration from your fellow shroomerites at your attempts to make unsubstantiated comparisons from general statements.
I.e. - Comparing me to the Heaven's Gate Cult, Hitler, etc.

I guess you could connect anything with the right mindset. Like how you are like the guy that stands on the beach as a 300 foot tidal wave comes in shouting, "There's no proof of this Tidal Wave! Where are the data charts?!"


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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: Nostradamus and The End of the World [Re: Swami]
    #522034 - 01/16/02 05:55 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

An object cannot be truely measured unless you use the appropirate tool for scale. If you compare a cherry bombs to a hand-grenade the hand-grenade will look pretty bad, correct? Now compare a hand-grenade to a nuclear weapon. Hand-grenade doesn't look so bad now, does it? What does this have to do with anything? It's a matter of scale in your comparisons: While the test you've prepared might seem to prove you right, you've essentially manipulated the comparison the same way you might by switching out nukes for grenades. There are many other questions that you neglected to put on it, in fact there's no way to even begin making up a fair test similar to that one.
Of course some people are going to freak out and kill themselves. They always have and they always will. If you're attempting to cleanse the world of every thing that causes that, you're going to be here for a long time.

Also notice that you don't hear many stories in the newspaper of how many people happily lived out their lives believing in an untold number of things. That stuff doesn't make the news. Mass murders will, but there's a lot more happening than that.


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