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 bmw037
Stranger
Registered: 12/26/01
Posts: 5
Last seen: 22 years, 10 months
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 PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE 
#515566 - 01/09/02 04:29 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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I?ve read many posts on rye substrate. I will be growing my first batch next week and was wondering about any personal advice that would help. I am using quart jars with filter. I have had problems with brf + verm and am looking for a better way. I like the idea that there is air between the grains to help promote mycelium. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!
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 Lana
Head Banana
Registered: 10/27/99
Posts: 3,109
Loc: www.MycoSupply.com
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 Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: bmw037]
#515677 - 01/09/02 06:26 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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AFOAF who uses rye grain for some of her harvest has given me this advise....
Gas exchange!!! Rye and mycelium love each other. And if the temps and gas exchange are right, you can have fully colonized jars in under 10 days.
Remember this! If you're working with quart jars or larger, rye grain or I should say the jars that the grain is in... will feel warm to the touch. The metabolic process, basically the mycelium growing, is moving at a rapid pace and will create heat.
That friend of a friend I was telling you about keeps her jars between 70 and 80 degrees and they colonize fast. She also uses filter disks. Oh thats another thing, if you're using the whole filter disk, try to keep your jars in an area where the ambient humidity is a little high, if not, you'll see the top layer of rye dry out. You'll see this simply by seeing the mycelium not growing there.... If it does happen its not usually a big deal, but its something you might want to watch out for.
Hope that helps,
Lana
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ar393
old timer
Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 702
Loc: VT
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Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Lana]
#516251 - 01/10/02 09:24 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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I personally think that the filters a re awaste, my cat has had nothing but bad experiences with them. Rye was used before filters and will be used after filters. if you are so keen on gas exchange use poly fil ( anno was a great pictorial tek on his site). my cat has had full jars of rye done in 6 days without filters. but again this is just my opinion and my cats expeirence, others have had great success.
peace, ar393
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Siphersh
Self-proclaimedhuman
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 120
Loc: Hungary
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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 Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: ar393]
#516267 - 01/10/02 09:48 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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o.k. Now. Tell me the secret! How in heaven's gate does anyone have so good results with rye...?! Please... anyone... Just one minute: I tell you how I do it, you tell me what I do wrong...
I wash the rye, put it into 720 ml jar, and some distilled water.
I tryed 1 dl rye + 0.5 dl water, 2dl rye + 0.5 dl water. More humid caused bacterial problems.
Microwave for 3 min; then lid closed tightly on lid little hole, piece of kleenex-alike wiper paper taped on hole. Let cool. Through hole inoculated, sporewater evenly distributed throughout substrate by shaking. Into darkness. Tried 75, 80, 85, 90 degrees fahrenheit. Grows very slowly, and stinks like shit. No. Worse.
What do I do wrong?!
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QuantumMeltdown
Space Monkey
Registered: 10/31/01
Posts: 4,962
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Last seen: 3 months, 30 days
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 Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Siphersh]
#516283 - 01/10/02 10:25 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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>>What do I do wrong?!
You have to pressure cook rye grain.
--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown
Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
-Mark Twain
"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,399
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 4 months, 2 days
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Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Siphersh]
#516308 - 01/10/02 11:13 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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"I wash the rye, put it into 720 ml jar, and some distilled water."
No, I don't see the the point of it, or either you precook the rye and PC it or you don't precook and only PC it.
"I tryed 1 dl rye + 0.5 dl water, 2dl rye + 0.5 dl water."
Rye:Water ratio is wrong, it should be a near 1:1.
"Microwave for 3 min"
??????????????????? are you fucking kidding?!?!
Tell my wich TeK microwaves the subtrate for 3 min. Can you eat a trukey cooked in 3 min ?
Peace,
MAIA
--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 
Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire
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Siphersh
Self-proclaimedhuman
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 120
Loc: Hungary
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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 Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: MAIA]
#516338 - 01/10/02 11:59 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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I know what microwave does to microorganisms. I still suppose that 3 min is enough, but I'll try 5 min, thank you for advice. I've read some threads on rye, and found out that the resistance to bacteria can be improved by pre-soaking rye in water beforehand. Quite reasonable, actually, as among the first things a crop starts producing when given moisture to it are anti-becterial chemicals. Thanks for all your nice advice. If you have any more, dont hesitate... :-)
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,399
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 4 months, 2 days
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Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Siphersh]
#516407 - 01/10/02 01:13 PM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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The problem with microwaving 3 minutes is that the rye will not get hydrated enough, it does not absorve humidity, that's why you were using too little water. Like you do, the rye will only have chance to absorve a bit more than 5% of water than the PCing method wich can last (for rye) between 45m and 60m, for precooked rye, the water is absorved when boilling (precooking) and then sterilized on the PC.
Let us do an experiment then.
Precook the rye, 1:1/rye:water, bring it to boil, decrease flame, cover to gain steam and turn off when you see allmost or no water in the bottom, try not to mix the rye too much when cooking or too many berries might burst and make the all thing very soggy. Fill you jars.
You don't want to use the PC, well use the microwave (i worked with one for sometime, PC is better) but at least blast for 8 to 10 minutes at max power. BTW, i let the rye rest one night before i sterilize it, it lets the endospore germinate but then they're nuked. Hope i gave you some ideas.
Peace,
MAIA
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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire
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Nighted
Ghost
Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 698
Loc: Funkytown
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Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Siphersh]
#517150 - 01/11/02 06:45 AM (22 years, 11 months ago) |
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I've got some even better advice: master a proven method before you start making assumptions and going about things your own way. If you have no practical experience to guide you , you will likely fail many times unless you get a real grip on working parameters.
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Hippie3
mycotopiate
Registered: 11/06/99
Posts: 3,090
Loc: mycotopia.net
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Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Siphersh]
#517178 - 01/11/02 07:25 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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lol
you ask what you did wrong,
then argue when they tell you.
you can't microwave rye and expect success,
no matter what you think you know.
--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia
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Siphersh
Self-proclaimedhuman
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 120
Loc: Hungary
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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 Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: MAIA]
#518241 - 01/12/02 06:13 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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MAIA, thank you.
Currently I'm trying to make my rye go active, to produce antibacterial stuff. Just to check if it is able to do that. I have really severe bacterium problems in my room. Some months ago I had some no-sterilization experiments, which made my room's microbiological status disastrous. Since then I had all my jars infected with bacteria, which "helps" keeping my room's air contaminated. That's why it's important for me to make the rye active before sterilization. I'd like to wait until the little rooties come out to be sure, that the crops are alive, and have produced antibacterial agents. But I have so much macteria in my room, that 24 hours soaking makes the rye go really bad. Would adding h2o2 help? What do you think?
I get your point, absoulutely.
Let's say I make the crops grow a couple of millimeters of this white root, or just soak it overnight. Then it gets moist inside, so how do I measure the amount of water?
If I microwave my 1/2dl water jars, thay begin to boil after 2 min. I guess if I have say 1 dl or 1.5 in it soaked up or anyway, in 10 min all of it may boil away, and it gets dry... Hm?
Isnt it so, that rye can hold a certain amount of water at a certain temperature, so if you give it time, it will absorb that much, or let out the excess?
Wir kiffen, wir kiffen, wir kiffen...
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Anonymous
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Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Siphersh]
#518246 - 01/12/02 06:20 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Dude.... you need a pressure cooker
Like Hippie said...
You can't microwave rye and expect success
***especially*** if you have bacterial problems in your room.
Edited by Shroomism (01/12/02 06:22 AM)
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Siphersh
Self-proclaimedhuman
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 120
Loc: Hungary
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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 Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Nighted]
#518247 - 01/12/02 06:26 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Nighted,
Thank you for your advice.
I have my 57th culture in my incubator right now. None of my cultures have provided shrooms by date. And most of the time I have been having 2-3 , max. 6 cultures running at one time.
"No wonder" you may say...
No wonder. Productivity and efficiency are of no importance to me. I'm not in a hurry to trip. I like to experiment. I've already tried to do wrong nearly anything that's possible to do wrong. And when I come to the fruiting phase, I'l probably try to make it as many different ways as I feel like. I'd like to FEEL the process. I'd like to know the limits of the process.
To tell you the truth, I'm much more interested in the biological aspects of growing, than I'm looking forward to trip right now.
Sure, the idea of WHAT I'm growing, and the entheogen possibilities in it do thrill me, and serve as the spice, the soul in the growing experiments.
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Anonymous
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Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Siphersh]
#518254 - 01/12/02 06:38 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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If you are trying to get a FEEL for the process...perhaps you should use the tried and true methods before experimenting.
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Siphersh
Self-proclaimedhuman
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 120
Loc: Hungary
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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 Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: ]
#518255 - 01/12/02 06:39 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thank you for your advice.
Okay, I've got it. Still I'd like to experiment with that. Actually I had already a culture fully developed, I mean 100 % but not too dense, because it was too dry. I made the substrate inpossible to settle for bacteria by making it just too dry for them and just moist enough for pc micelium. Now I'll try to presoak, and maybe add some h2o2, which should make me possible to get it more watery without infection. Just experimenting around, ok?
And I do believe in microwave. I appreciate your advice, dont misunderstand it, and I will remember your words at setting up my experiments. It' just I think that post-sterilization infection is the cause for any such problem if microwaved more than 3 min. You know, it has to cool down, and during that air is sucked inside, and no filter can filter bacteria. Believe me. There is no such thing as a phisical bacterium filter. Bacterium filters are either chemical, or you have to plug it in. I believe, that the point is making the substrate a bad environment for bacteria. Presoaking is my freshest idea.
You think I write nonsense? Great! Let's talk about it! Let's exchange ideas!
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Anonymous
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Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Siphersh]
#518258 - 01/12/02 06:45 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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The point is that pressure cookers at 15 psi permeate the insides of the grain at 260 degrees...and its done for an hour to sufficiently sterilize grain. Boiling water (such as in a microwave) only reaches 212 degrees, and for only a couple minutes? I have had 100% contamination only pressure cooking for 30 minutes. Pre soaking may help to germinate the hibernating contaminants in the grain, but I would not be surprised by a very high rate of contamination if using a microwave...somewhere around 100%
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Siphersh
Self-proclaimedhuman
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 120
Loc: Hungary
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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 Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: ]
#518259 - 01/12/02 06:46 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Microwaving the rye IS actually a TEK I read at shroomery. Or erowid. dunno. I've read many TEK-s, so I have a feeling of whats the problem, when something is wrong. I appreciate your advice. I feel like trying to make it more productive, but I read reports on successful microwave sterilization growing, and I had one jar 100% colonized after 2 times 3 min microwave, so I stay at microwave for now, but if get bored of those bacteria, I'l try PC. Thank you for insisting on it.
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Siphersh
Self-proclaimedhuman
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 120
Loc: Hungary
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: ]
#518265 - 01/12/02 06:52 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Wait a minute, wait a minute! Microwave only produces 100 degrrees celsius. This for three minutes, to expect this temperature in this short time to kill bacteria that boiling water 30 min does not, would be quite idiotic, indeed!
The point is that MICROWAVE itself is a death-ray that kills EVERYTHING in a very short time. It's mainly because it does not effect from the outside into inside, but on the molecular level, "from inside" the organisms. But it does not just make hot, it also simply KILLS!
So dont try to put the hamster inside the microwave "for just a few seconds"! Your little brother would go very sad about it...
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Anonymous
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Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Siphersh]
#518267 - 01/12/02 06:58 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sorry, that was 212 degrees Fahrenheit
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Siphersh
Self-proclaimedhuman
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 120
Loc: Hungary
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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 Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: ]
#518269 - 01/12/02 07:00 AM (22 years, 10 months ago) |
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I know, that's the point! Atmospherical boiling water 100c 212f is not enough in itself. I didnt misunderstand you. Do you get my point?
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