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Anonymous
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 Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE  [Re: Siphersh]
#518271 - 01/12/02 07:05 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah....I just don't trust the microwave for sterilizing grain.
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 Siphersh
Self-proclaimedhuman
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 120
Loc: Hungary
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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 Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: ]
#518272 - 01/12/02 07:07 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Respect
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Anno
Experimenter
Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,167
Loc: my room
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Siphersh]
#518274 - 01/12/02 07:09 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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>MICROWAVE itself is a death-ray that kills EVERYTHING in a very short time
Bullshit.
Put a raw potato in the microwave for 30 seconds and you?ll see that it will be hot outside, but when you cut it it will be still cold inside.
Forget the microwave.
If you want to mess with rye, you need a pressure cooker.
Point.
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 zilch
enthusiast
Registered: 11/01/00
Posts: 58
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Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: ]
#518276 - 01/12/02 07:10 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Microwaves kills bactera, it really does. 3 Minutes could be too little as the waves are not evenly spread. Microwaving is really an approven wav of sterilizing substrates.
Why P.C:ing is a must, is just what many people has already said here: The rye has to soak the water. You try to cook your rice for 3 minutes in the microwave oven. Fells a bit hard yay?
Maybe you could cook it and the microwave it. If you have a p.c. I really don't understand why you havn't used it.
sheers.
zilch
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Siphersh
Self-proclaimedhuman
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 120
Loc: Hungary
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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 Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: zilch]
#518280 - 01/12/02 07:22 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thank you for reply.
I agree with you. I'd also feel more comfortable with 5 minutes.
This soaking thing I just dont understand! If the rye does not suck up all the water it should in the microwave, it will do it later! 24 hours max. At room temperature it also picks up water! The amount of water that it doesnt accept at room temperature (or 85 F or anything) would be sweat out by it if taken up at higher temperatures anyway...
Or me talking silly-silly-nosense-atall? Eh? :-)
And yeah... I soak it in water for a day beforhend to make it chemically more resistant to bacteria. So it has already taken up plenty of water when goes into microwave and feels soft. This is my plan for next experiment, at least.
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Anno
Experimenter
Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,167
Loc: my room
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Siphersh]
#518283 - 01/12/02 07:27 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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>The amount of water that it doesnt accept at room
>temperature (or 85 F or anything) would be sweat out by it
>if taken up at higher temperatures anyway...
>Or me talking silly-silly-nosense-atall?
You seem to get a feel for it at last....
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Siphersh
Self-proclaimedhuman
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 120
Loc: Hungary
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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 Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Anno]
#518284 - 01/12/02 07:29 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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That's because the microwave is absorbed by the potato, or because you put it in the middle of the oven, and the intensity is not even within. But anyway. Life is exterminated long before heat could do it.
I tell you another experiment: put some yeast into a microwave oven for 10 ... no! 5 seconds, and after that try to make bread with it... :o
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Anno
Experimenter
Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,167
Loc: my room
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Siphersh]
#518292 - 01/12/02 07:40 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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It all depends on the quantity, the mass of the material you put in. If you put in a frozen loaf of bred into the microwave and turn it on high for a few minutes, the outside will be steaming, and the kernel will still be frozen.
A you stated yourself, "That's because the microwave is absorbed by the potato", more exactly by the outer layers of the potato or bread loaf.
The waves don?t even reach the center.
One thing I don?t understand: You chose the experimental path: "Learning by doing", which is ok and also my philosophy. You microwaved your rye dozen times and everytime it was unsuccessfull.
I think you should LEARN something from it, not only DO it!
If you want to read something interesting, follow the link:
http://www.google.de/search?sourceid=navclient&q=how+does+a+microwave+work
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Siphersh
Self-proclaimedhuman
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 120
Loc: Hungary
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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 Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Anno]
#518300 - 01/12/02 07:57 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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:-)
yes. You may be right.
I have progress. I always change something, and my last one fully colonized, it has been eaten by someone, but that's not the point... The point is that I have constant progress in eliminating more and more obstacles, and with presoaking I believe I will get even further.
I have tried boiling water for sterilizing. I havent tried PC, because I dont feel like trying it.
YOU PEOPLE ARE SO GOD DAMN FOCUSED ON EFFICIENCY AND PRODUCTIVITY!
I really have time. I dont want to open a mushroom-factory! The world is sped up enough. Why dont WE concentrate on the process and not the grams/day ratio of different TEKs, and such....
Ok. sorry... off-topic I am, yes; all I want to say is that I have constant progress, and I know that many have success with microwave sterilization, and I'd like to belong among THEM, and the PC guys... ;)
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Anonymous
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Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Siphersh]
#518505 - 01/12/02 01:03 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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If you're going to use a microwave, the key is to keep the stuff being microwaved THIN and airy - quart jars are probably not a good idea. The microwaves penetrate about 2 inches at most in thick material and anything heated deeper than that is through conduction. If you insist on using the microwave, use shallow glad or ziploc (word is, glad is a better product) disposable containers that are about 1 1/2 inches deep at most and make sure the substrate is very loose and airy to allow the microwaves to penetrate. My most successful early attempt without a PC was doing it this way as opposed to boiling 1/2 pint jars or microwaving 1/2 pint jars. Also be very liberal with the use of vermiculite as it helps keep the substrate airy allowing the microwaves to pass through to the nutritive material. Leave some space between the top of your substrate and the container lid as the contents will expand when cooked and lift off the lid if you have too much substrate. Lastly, I would increase the water content a bit and microwave for a longer period of time, I used 2 1/2 cup ziploc containers, using a little less than double the PF 1/2 pint recipe per container and cooked for 8 minutes, any longer and they start to melt (which tells me the temps have reached over 250 degrees farenheit because polypropolene starts to get soft at this temperature).
Good luck in your experiments.
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Siphersh
Self-proclaimedhuman
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 120
Loc: Hungary
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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 Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: ]
#520161 - 01/14/02 06:29 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Very reasonable ideas. I'm sure, I can profit of them.
Thank you very much indeed.
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Mycoangelo
newbie
Registered: 12/27/01
Posts: 33
Last seen: 22 years, 5 months
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 Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Siphersh]
#521559 - 01/15/02 06:37 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dude, bacteria are amazing things. As a spore they have virtually no moisture in them. Putting them in the microwave does not instantly zap them. Buy a pressure cooker. If you read a survival manual it will tell you to boil water for 10 minutes to kill the microbes and even then it suggests iodine. If you're having a problem with smell, then obviously the microwave isn't working.
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Siphersh
Self-proclaimedhuman
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 120
Loc: Hungary
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Mycoangelo]
#522208 - 01/16/02 09:36 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hey!
Bacteria have virtually no water in them?! That would reduce the validity of the microwave procedure immensely! At first I just cant believe it however. I've always thought that a bacterium consists mainly of water. I dont doubt, I just ask you: ARE YOU SURE?
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Anno
Experimenter
Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,167
Loc: my room
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Siphersh]
#522277 - 01/16/02 10:35 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Siphersh
Self-proclaimedhuman
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 120
Loc: Hungary
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/RYE SUBSTRATE [Re: Anno]
#522305 - 01/16/02 10:53 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thx!
Bacteria have this idonnowhat form when they turn into sporelike things to survive tough periods... now I remember!
But let's not forget about our trusted and beloved friend, the Hidrogen Peroxide!
Yeay! We luv yer!
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