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OfflineEther_Bunny
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Registered: 12/17/01
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Little talked about "deep scratching"
    #508808 - 01/03/02 11:46 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Is deep scratching effective?

I've just harvested...

After picking the first flush from a casing, how long should I wait to deep scratch?


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Little talked about [Re: Ether_Bunny]
    #508811 - 01/03/02 11:54 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

dude has had much better second flushes when he scratches after the first. He picks ALL of the aborts and leftover mushroom chunks first, then sprays well, then scratches very well, then fills in any space between the substrate and sides of tray and levels out the casing mixture. Then places another thin layer of 50-50 on top. Then he sprays to capacity, keeps under casing run conditions, and then initiates when ready. Some people argue that just filling the holes and putting the tray back in the fruiting chamber is better, but IME my way yields MUCH better later flushes.


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: Little talked about [Re: Olgualion]
    #540344 - 02/04/02 04:23 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Some questions on this:

1) I deep scratched because I believe I had overlay. My coco was becoming really brown, and there was a thin layer of myclium which covered the entire top of the casing. Do I just keep it in the fruiting chamber, or do I put it back into incubation until you see spots coming through again?

2) Inbetween flushes, when you deep scratch, do you keep it in the fruiting chamber or back into incubation as well!?

Thanks in advance!


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Little talked about [Re: angryshroom]
    #540402 - 02/04/02 05:40 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I haven't worked with the coir, but if this hypothetical question had peat substituted for it, i would do this. Pick all aborts, scratch, level out and spray if casing is dry, then place another thin layer of casing, place in incubation conditions with AL foil covering the tray, until the first signs of mycelium coming through. At this time cold shock in the fridge overnight, and then place directly in fruiting chamber.


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Anonymous

Re: Little talked about [Re: angryshroom]
    #540403 - 02/04/02 05:44 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

If you are having overlay problems then you are having incubation problems. The mycelium is still VEGetating to the MAX. Introduce more air earlier. In the future, only incubate your post casing casings for 24-48 hours, then place in the fruiting chamber. Make sure your fruiting chamber is getting adequate air exchange, it sounds like it is not.

Deep scratching is not an enhancement tool, it is a recovery tool. Yields overall will be less if you had to deep scratch. Yields will only be increased from deep scratching, if you had excessive overlay, and a sealed casing layer, and if you did not scratch to recover your casing, you would get few or no fruits otherwise.

Pins for both the first and second flush are produced in the initial pin initiation. If you harvest the first flush, and scratch, you have already bypassed the second flush, and are producing pins for the third.

Scratching, and recasing also increases the chance of adding, or spreading latent contaminants.

If you have to scratch, do so!!!


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: Little talked about [Re: Olgualion]
    #540405 - 02/04/02 05:45 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

AH ok.

I deep scratched a few days ago, and im seeing mycelium growing again, however its like really fuzzy, and actually growing off the old mycleium whihc i deep scratched... heh.

If I deep scratch again, and then recover with damp coco, put into incubation a few days then cold shock, would that be ok? or should I just leave it how it is? The casing still looks a little dry, even after a few mistings


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OfflineRu
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Re: Little talked about [Re: angryshroom]
    #540419 - 02/04/02 06:01 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I think your SOL even if you get that thing to fruit there will only be limited amount to recover. Try Try again you get the hang of it eventually.


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: Little talked about [Re: Ru]
    #540491 - 02/04/02 07:16 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

naw, outta luck ya think?
Hmmm I dont think so! The mycelium growing underneath the casing look so damn strong. I think I should just recover the coco with some more damp stuff...see what happends.


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InvisiblePapa_Smurf
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Re: Little talked about "deep scratching" [Re: Ether_Bunny]
    #540501 - 02/04/02 07:26 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

ok, im confused. After you harvest the 1st flush you should cover with another thin layer of casing and then cover with foil as you did after casing it initially and let it sit for a few days? Or do you cover with a thin layer of casing and continue to put it in fruiting conditions?


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Anonymous

Re: Little talked about "deep scratching" [Re: Papa_Smurf]
    #540524 - 02/04/02 07:55 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Papa smurf read the title of this thread. It is about damaged casing layer, deep scratching and recover of casing layer.

This is a recovery technique. If you have successfully harvested a good first flush, leave your casing alone in the fruiting chamber. Mist it, bring water content back up to where it was prior to the first flush, and wait for the second flush.

Do not fuck with your casing layer, unless it is having problems pinning. Problems associated with overlay, which is directly related to over incubation, and a lack of air exchange.

IGNORE THE BAD ADVICE!!!!! somewhere somehow someone has been misinformed, and it seems to be contagous. LOL

Skipping the second flush and going to the third is not BETTER!!!


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Little talked about "deep scratching" [Re: Papa_Smurf]
    #540540 - 02/04/02 08:16 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)



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Anonymous

Re: Little talked about "deep scratching" [Re: Anno]
    #540585 - 02/04/02 09:02 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, as ANNO directed you. Fill in any holes in the casing layer from harvesting the first flush. Just do so carefully. There are pins already on the casing layer that will become your second flush. Don't cover them!!! Just fill in the holes.


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Little talked about "deep scratching" [Re: ]
    #540772 - 02/05/02 12:47 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Gee, I apologise for telling what has worked for a friend of mine in the past. What an asshole i must be spreading min-information, which IME will still yield a good 35 or so grams over three flushes.

In the future i will do my best to refrain from replying to questions in which my answer may differ from the accepted dogma.


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OfflineAzure
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Registered: 01/01/99
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Re: Little talked about "deep scratching" [Re: Olgualion]
    #540861 - 02/05/02 02:45 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Teonan may have been a bit personal and insulting about it, but for the most part, he's right. Mycelium is more vulnerable to contamination once it's been taxed by the first flush, so it doesn't make any sense to deep scratch unless it's not producing. Perhaps deep scratching may work, but it's definitely not going to increase the yield because a lot of the stored energy has to go into recovery and not fruiting. You'd probably get the same yield if you didn't scratch.


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Anonymous

Re: Little talked about "deep scratching" [Re: Olgualion]
    #540869 - 02/05/02 02:53 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I am glad it works for your friend. Deep scratching after a healthy first flush is BAD INFORMATION. Pins for your first and second flush are produced during the initial intiation. If you deep scratch after harvesting the first flush, you kill all the pins for the second flush. This deep scratching at this point does two things, it prolongs the time between the first and second flush, and more importantly, it will spread any contamination that might be presently contained.

I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings, just stating a simple fact. By the way, you can actually get up to six flushes off a casing easily, a little patch work here and there, and not killing any pins. If you are happy get just over an ounce off a casing, great. But you had the papa smurf a bit confused. You had him thinking that deep scratching was something you did too a healthy casing in between flushes. IT ISN"T. Deep scratching is a recovery tool used to recover damaged casings from OVERLAY.

Some species of mushrooms actually benefit from deep scratching prior to the first flush, but cubensis is not one of them.

Look, I really am not trying to be a dick. Your casing has a limited amount of available nutrients, and it can only produce a certain amount of total yield. The object of the game is to get it in as short a period of time as possible, because at any given moment contamination can set in, and you lose the whole thing. It is not just my opinion, but it is a simple reality. The more you touch your casing, the more chance of introducing contaminants, the longer it takes to get your three flushes, or four, or five, or six, the more risk of contaminants setting in.

Scratching, recasing, scratching, recasing, takes time, and contact. Two things I try to avoid.
Scratch away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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OfflineEther_Bunny
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Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 62
Loc: The Mid-West
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Re: Little talked about "deep scratching" [Re: Ether_Bunny]
    #541069 - 02/05/02 09:04 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Sounds like this topic is never talked about for good reason...

Confusing and Generally Unnecessary.

Thanks!


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Offlinechadaffe
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Registered: 03/24/09
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Re: Little talked about "deep scratching" [Re: Anonymous]
    #10084590 - 04/01/09 01:47 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

ijust read this thread and deep scratched my casing hope It works


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Little talked about "deep scratching" [Re: chadaffe]
    #10084944 - 04/01/09 03:29 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

That's a bogus tek.  It's the reason this thread died 7 years ago.
RR


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Offlinechadaffe
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Re: Little talked about "deep scratching" [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10086256 - 04/01/09 12:17 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

really so deep scratching was a waste of time


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