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group huddle concerning the P&S....
    #5024057 -

OK... i get it guys. Sure, we are all one, everything is nothing, it is all an enigmatic duality of endless fractals folding in upon itself. Whatever.
get it? alright.... then we can stop posting this crap in here which is better suited for MRP.

This thread isnt about arguing whether or not those are valid for this forum.
This thread is about the mystical diatribes that many people post in here without any explanation. Many of them arent even coherent.
I am even guilty of making idealistic rambling threads, but that was before the big split.

Here is one of the biggest problems I see plagueing this forum: extremes and absolutes.
When you create a theory, you need constants, but turning an emotion, a perspective, or even a tangible variable into a constant will give you incorrect output.
Emotions fluctuate, there are thousands of facets and gradients to an emotion. Perspectives change.... cars cannot travel a constant speed of 72 mph from phoenix to montreal.

take this desire thread for example... the creator of that thread had to nail down the emotion "Desire" in order for the theory to work. Had to make "desire" a fixed absolute, which ended up becoming "addiction". From there, with desire at a fixed place, they could go on to hammer out their theory within their fixed, lopsided set of rules.

Im not the first to say it (by far) but the only constant thing, is change.
I have been trying to work on not using words like: absolute, always, constantly, forever, and unchanging..... because I have seen the absurdity in theories built upon these words.

Lets just try to keep the bewildered, universe shattering notion of incomprehensible duality to the MRP or Pub, unless you plan on really delving into the semantics of the matter, and not just saying "dude, its like everything is nothing, yet there is no nothing. Im so deep".

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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5024184 -

Isn't it kind of strange that we have a forum dedicated to absolutist thinking and meaningless speculation? Isn't it kind of strange that we have such a forum to the exlusion of this one, where we expect people to think and behave apart from such things?

If we are fortunate enough not to be bogged down by the extreme and absolutist thinking you're describing, the way to oppose it's presence around us is simply not to engage with those who are not yet so mature. We cannot command other people to let go of their grasping at absolutes. We cannot command fundamentalism to stop. If we stop our arguing with it, however, it will lose it's momentum and disappear on it's own. We need not segregate ourselves into different forums and impose limitations on how people are expected or allowed to debate. We need only to continue improving our own wisdom without allowing ourselves to become distracted.


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5024188 -

:thumbup:

i'm ashamed of myself after reading that.

why not start a thread (other than this one) so we know more of what you would like to see here and not what you don't?

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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: Ped]
    #5024275 -

Ped said:
Isn't it kind of strange that we have a forum dedicated to absolutist thinking and meaningless speculation? Isn't it kind of strange that we have such a forum to the exlusion of this one, where we expect people to think and behave apart from such things?


not really.

Quote:
If we are fortunate enough not to be bogged down by the extreme and absolutist thinking you're describing, the way to oppose it's presence around us is simply not to engage with those who are not yet so mature.


which is why i generally stay out of MRP, so i dont have to read threads like "Becoming" which are like nails on a chalkboard.
Quote:
We cannot command other people to let go of their grasping at absolutes. We cannot command fundamentalism to stop. If we stop our arguing with it, however, it will lose it's momentum and disappear on it's own.


Im not talking about a worldwide push to stop the use of absolutes. The problem, is that there is no arguing or agreeing with it really! They are dead end statements.
When I read someones post, i have a mental picture of their facial mannerisms, and even a vocal tone. I attempt to understand their perception of the world, and if i have something to add or defy, I post.
A perfect example of what I am talking about is the "Becoming" thread. It doesnt say anything, it has no content. I have found more spiritual enlightenment reading toothpaste while taking a dump.


Quote:
We need not segregate ourselves into different forums and impose limitations on how people are expected or allowed to debate. We need only to continue improving our own wisdom without allowing ourselves to become distracted.


We already have segregated ourselves, and I think if we stick to that split, everything would run smoothly.
Basically, one forum states that "everyones right, everyone is a winner", and anything goes as long as it is in the light of "constructive criticism.... see how it sounds a little too much like Kindergarten?
while the other forum, has placed limitations regarding the content of threads, and has set a standard for posting within it, and if you cant chin up on the bar here, you get moved to MRP, back to the minor leagues.

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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: Ped]
    #5024560 -

Ped said:
If we stop our arguing with it, however, it will lose it's momentum and disappear on it's own.


Just like domestic abuse and racism.

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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5024590 -

MushmanTheManic said:
Ped said:
If we stop our arguing with it, however, it will lose it's momentum and disappear on it's own.


Just like domestic abuse and racism.


you must be one of those people that beat up wife abusers and hate racists....

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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5024651 -

Yes.

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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5024660 -

soo whers' the PUB located...

i don't fit in w this mumbo jumbo esoteric bs


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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: rwilber]
    #5024724 -

what the hell are yall talkin about????


--------------------
Asshole

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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
    #5024738 -

Isn't it obvious?
French Canadian Bean Soup!

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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5024866 -

>> A perfect example of what I am talking about is the "Becoming" thread. It doesnt say anything, it has no content. I have found more spiritual enlightenment reading toothpaste while taking a dump.

The impression I'm getting from this and the rest of your reply is that you have a certain standard for the content of these forums upon which your satisfaction with this community depends. What I am saying is that it's better to derrive our contentment with S&P from our own contribution to it, instead of the contributions of others.

If we continue to hold out expecations as to what sort of content a forum should contain, we will always be frustrated. On the other hand, if we are happy with our own contribution and simply stop participating in threads that are not condusive to our own posting style, those threads which frustrate us would simply stop appearing. They would stop appearing either because we choose not to read them, or because we take away their momentum by refusing to pay them any mind.

The bottom line is that communities like this one arise according to the contributions of all of their members. As such, their development will always take it's own course that no individual participant can direct. The more we try to force S&P to be what "I" want it to be, the more unhappy we will become with it. And this is why OTD became OTD and the Pub. This is why #shroomery became #shroomery and #cultivation. This is why S&P became P&S and MR&P.


>> Just like domestic abuse and racism.

What an absurd leap this is. I am not saying that the way to solve problems is to ignore them. I am saying that we need to be content with ourselves instead of constantly expectings others to behave how we would prefer. We cannot employ this method in cases like domestic abuse and racism because in such cases other people are suffering at the hands of the offender. If we are qualified to be of actual benefit to a situation like this, then it is our duty as caring human beings to intervene.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5024959 -

lol


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--------------------
Disclaimer!?

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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5025488 -

And what would you prefer the content of this forum to be?

If people want to discuss things with absolute, rational answers, they can go to Sci/Tech. If they want to state their irrational views without being challenged, they can go to MRP.

For those in the middle, this forum exists. The most interesting things aren't usually solid enough to be discussed in Sci/Tech, and MRP is set up as a forum for ideological masturbation. If I'm interested in stating my beliefs, listening to those of others, and then actually thinking about them all and challenging those that don't make sense, then I come here.

If you think people are being stupid in some of their beliefs, challenge the beliefs; that's what this forum is for. If their beliefs are so foolish then it should be easy enough to make that clear, and they will to stop trying to argue them; if not, then perhaps you can learn something yourself by considering the posed ideas. Telling everyone to shut up doesn't solve anything and just makes you look like a grump. I can agree that any beliefs that people can't / won't argue for probably shouldn't be on this forum, but almost anything can be reasonably debated. Even if it's a simple "I believe it's true, but have no way to prove it", I think that should be fair game as long as they're willing to have their ideas attacked and criticized.

And for the sake of debate, what's wrong with such "all is one" views in the first place that would make them any less suitable for this forum than any other ideas? It's a fairly simple and beautiful idea, as truths so often tend to be. It isn't any better or worse of an explanation than anything science has yet come up with, any of which are simply faith in ideas devised to explain small bits of evidence. Absolute faith in anything that obscure seems absurd to me, but I can see nothing wrong with lighthearted belief in any feasible concept of reality over any other.

But most important? It's that kind of stuff that makes this forum so interesting. If we didn't post any ideas that couldn't withstand rigorous scientific proof, then this forum would be boring as hell, and wouldn't have much of anything to do with either philosophy or spirituality.  :mushroom2:

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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: Ped]
    #5025507 -

Ped said:
I am not saying that the way to solve problems is to ignore them.


Oh, I'm gonna have to blame this one on the decoder.
Thats exactly what I thought you were saying.  :sorry:

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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5025751 -

Quote:
which is why i generally stay out of MRP, so i dont have to read threads like "Becoming" which are like nails on a chalkboard


Yeah what is a thread like that doing in a Philosophy and Spirituality Forum?

Quote:
We already have segregated ourselves, and I think if we stick to that split, everything would run smoothly.


And then we should take them all to camps...

Quote:
and if you cant chin up on the bar here, you get moved to MRP, back to the minor leagues.


...and burn them because there not really human anways.


--------------------
Trust thyself.

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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: justAkid]
    #5025762 -

I'm just being defensive because I liked that post.

Don't mind me.  :crazy:


--------------------
Trust thyself.

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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: Ped]
    #5027389 -

Although the original poster's heart is in the right place, I believe Ped's responses do a very good job of outlining the fact that the problem has nothing to do with the content, but instead how individuals choose to react to that content.

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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #5028008 -

Quote:
the problem has nothing to do with the content, but instead how individuals choose to react to that content.



Hmmm...kinda like "real life," then?  :wink:

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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: Veritas]
    #5028179 -

Yes, well, is this not an aspect of real life? :P It should be treated as such.

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Re: group huddle concerning the P&S.... [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #5028199 -

Of course this is an aspect of real life. (Note the "" in my post)

My point was that your advice seems obvious, yet is rarely applied in real life.

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