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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups
    #711050 - 06/29/02 02:06 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

From TrOmAn: so lets just lay down, like the rest of the sheep and not fight, and watch our people being slaughtererd by the thousands on CNN

Now I don't want to get into the moral issue of war here, nor to debate his point in it's entirety. I want to focus on just one part - "our people".

Who are "our people"?

Most of the time I am satirical here and have frequently been asked my spiritual views. Well here is a tiny glimpse and is of utmost importance to me.

Lets look at how we draw imaginary lines around groups that are constanly changing. For the purpose of this mental experiment we will take a random grouping of Americans. First we shall separate them into black & white. (What about Asians and Mexicans and AmerIndians? Sorry. Only two groups. Choose a side.)

The Whites might grumble about welfare and crime while looking down on the other group. While the Blacks might grumble about judicial, educational and career bias. With a little provocation the two groups could easily be manouvered into fighting.

We could repeat this by segregating the groups into Male & Female and repeat.

We could repeat this by segregating the groups into Gay & Straight and repeat.

We could repeat this by segregating the groups into Young & Old and repeat.

We could repeat this by segregating the groups into Christians and non-Christians. The Christians would be ready to take on the Muslims. But then we could separate the Christians into Protestants and Catholics and another battle could ensue. Then we can further divide into Baptists and Lutherans and so on until there was only one person in each group.

On the shroomery we divide ourselves on the basis of belief and also by which generation that you belong to. One division that is of most importance to "us"; drug prohibitionists and drug proponents.

To me, growing spiritually means to continually question where and why you draw these imaginary boundaries; and to keep expanding them to include more of mankind, more of other species, and more of creation.

WE will truly be a "Human Race" when we can draw a circle around all 6 billion of US.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups [Re: Swami]
    #711100 - 06/29/02 02:42 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know about you,, but I'm already seperated into a seperate group just at the shroomery,, I am member of TGS


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups [Re: Swami]
    #711156 - 06/29/02 03:18 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Swami- I know sometimes I am "mean" to you, but I really mean no offense at all. I am just sticking up for things that I believe in that may be wrong or may be right.

I just wanted to say, I really really like your belief here:

To me, growing spiritually means to continually question where and why you draw these imaginary boundaries; and to keep expanding them to include more of mankind, more of other species, and more of creation.

It reminds me of the song "Imagine" in a way...

Only when we open our eyes enough to see no difference between black and white, young and old, gay and straight, etc., etc., will we finally see that we are all just humans. If that ever happens, it would be the greatest spiritual movement of all. Unfortunately, I think that our animal instincts of having groups and territories and such will prevent this from happening; at least for the time being. But I do believe we are evolving morally as well as physically, so perhaps it will be possible some day.

-RebelSteve


--------------------
Namaste.


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Offlinedumlovesyou
retired shroomer
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/02/01
Posts: 685
Loc: One dimension
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups [Re: Swami]
    #711172 - 06/29/02 03:29 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Good point. I think you must think farther...THINK yourself an alien..... think yourself the universe!!!


--------------------
I see trees of green, psylocibe mushrooms too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself what a wonderful world


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InvisibleRevelation

 User Gallery

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,130
Loc: heart cave
Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups [Re: Swami]
    #711222 - 06/29/02 04:04 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Good post, I totally agree. Who really creates the lines though? Certainly not the majority. I think the lines are created by a few individuals....perhaps it's because they believe that there are more people like "them"...when in fact we are all individuals. And yet we are all the same..there is no inbetween..no "other than me"..

Perhaps the most obvious lines are the ones which seperate what we call countries. Are these lines worth going to war over? They exist only in our imagination...it's such a false concept.

I just had an idea...instead of going to war on a regular basis, how about we all migrate to the borders of our countries, not to fight, but specifiacally to make friends.. we should all go and hug our neighbours instead of killing them. yes! Isn't this the only way to really move forward?

It's amazing how willing people are to make friends, if only given the choice to do so. We've all been to concerts, and been amazed at the sense of "oneness"...the same people that wouldn't look at you in the street, but feel united over a common interest. Isn't our most common interest our humanity? What limits are there for a world without walls? What potential is there for a people without enemies?

Okay so im getting carried away...but it just shows how far we have to go...


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups [Re: Revelation]
    #711234 - 06/29/02 04:11 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Revelation- What a GREAT idea!!!! If only our world leaders were as smart as you!

-RebelSteve


--------------------
Namaste.


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups [Re: nugsarenice]
    #711490 - 06/29/02 06:27 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, I give up.
What is TGS?


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups [Re: Swami]
    #711719 - 06/29/02 07:58 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I think that people feel more comfortable associating with others who are like them. Its only natural. If anyone here enjoys associating with people who are unlike them more than those who are similar, please speak up because i would like to hear your opinion. I mean, most of us cannot even have a conversation with anyone who does not speak english. Unfortunately, arbitrary boundaries are simply the logical result.


--------------------
:egyptian:


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups [Re: Jellric]
    #711742 - 06/29/02 08:09 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Something kind of odd just happened to me. It's probably nothing, but it has me wondering.
I have been reading 'The Mothman Prophecies" by John A. Keel. I *just* put it down after sadly coming to the end of the book. Then I pop on here and look for recent posts throughout the Shroomery. I looked here and was reminded I had posted asking nugsarenice what TGS is. No reply yet. I then go to altavista, and do a search for "John A. Keel". I enjoyed the book greatly and *hate* to read the last of an author I enjoy. My search pulled up one other book by the author, "Our Haunted Planet". Evidently the book is published by a small publisher. The address listed began: Hidden Mysteries- TGS. No other info.

Three little letters. Coincidence sure. But now I am dying to know- what is TGS???!!
I do love a mystery.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Anonymous

Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups [Re: Swami]
    #711890 - 06/29/02 09:00 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I think we create the lines as part of our desire for affliliation/association. It's part of the social nature of man. As we develop as humans we learn by noticing differences and similiarities that Aristotle was so good at pointing out. Many things have differences and similiarities. What you focus on makes the difference. Some people point out the undesireable aspect of stereo-typical thinking. They ignore the fact that groups have attributes just as much as individuals in the groups have attributes. Think of how difficult it would be to identify mushrooms if they didn't have similiarities and differences. When a group of people wish death upon another group of people it is a reality of their being. It shouldn't be ignored, but explored. And then dealt with accordingly.


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Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/05/00
Posts: 3,442
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups [Re: Jellric]
    #712355 - 06/30/02 01:01 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

you should really ask sweetmaryjane, she runs tgs,, I am just a member.


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups [Re: Swami]
    #712453 - 06/30/02 03:39 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Senior Swami, I am with you on this one.
I to see the same thing, the problem is that most people can not brake away from conditioning, for example I my self was raced in a country that had very poor views on homosexuals, when I came back to America every time I meet some one gay, I will clinch and despise that person (my conditioning) but with no basis just because he was gay.
In fact many gay people keep appearing in my life, bosses, neighbors etc.
I thought perhaps life was trying to teach me a lesson, I open up to the idea that they are as human as I am and I made an effort to know the better and today I have several gay friends and I accept them but it took a considerable effort from my part to brake a way from my previous conditioning.
I am an avid gardener, and I learned one thing that could be applied to humans to: If you plant just one crop (monoculture) you crop will be susceptible to disease, but if instead you interplant and have a good bio diversity, every thing will be healthy because even weeds have there place in nature.
With humans is the same way. But some humans just want to insist in having a boring and sick monoculture.


--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups [Re: Swami]
    #713635 - 06/30/02 06:34 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

So basically... you are saying that we are all one and any seperation or boundary that exists between us is merely an illusionary state. I highly agree.


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups [Re: ]
    #713648 - 06/30/02 06:40 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

"There's only just a fine line... Between alone and all one"

literally.

-RebelSteve


--------------------
Namaste.


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OfflineChubbSubb
Zen Lunatic

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 612
Loc: Here.
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups [Re: Swami]
    #715323 - 07/01/02 10:49 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Great post Swami!......very well put, i agree 100%
Peace, one love, Trev


--------------------
Those who know do not speak.
Those who speak do not know.


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Anonymous

Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups [Re: Swami]
    #719356 - 07/03/02 01:45 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups [Re: Swami]
    #719702 - 07/03/02 09:04 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Swami-
You know next week they'll forget all about this... and they'll brand you an asshole again. hehehe


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Male

Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
Loc: Arizona
Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups [Re: Sclorch]
    #719768 - 07/03/02 09:50 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Hahahahaha... But he is an asshole, and a self-proclaimed one at that!

He's just an asshole who has good posts sometimes

RS


--------------------
Namaste.


Edited by RebelSteve33 (07/03/02 11:02 AM)


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OfflineGRTUD
INFP
Male

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 270
Loc: The Days Between
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Gr [Re: Swami]
    #721026 - 07/03/02 08:12 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

"I once dabbled in passificism. Not in Nam, of course."
- Walter


--------------------
"New shit has come to light..."


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Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Boundaries - Drawing Arbitrary Lines Around Groups [Re: Revelation]
    #721429 - 07/03/02 10:56 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Swami, here is another of your enemies chiming in to say amen. Actually it's been a while since that time I picked a fight with you (in my first month at the Shroomery--how very kosher).

Revelation, I heard an idea similar to this:

"I just had an idea...instead of going to war on a regular basis, how about we all
migrate to the borders of our countries, not to fight, but specifiacally to make
friends.. we should all go and hug our neighbours instead of killing them. yes! Isn't
this the only way to really move forward?"

You know how some countries have conscription, where every male must put a length of time into the military? What if we required every 19 or 20-year-old to leave the country for a year or two? It would make a lot of them think hard about the very idea Swami is bringing up.

Nugs, what on god's green earth is TGS??


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