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Invisible2Experimental
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the line
    #2561352 - 04/14/04 11:34 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

When is the line drawn on what makes an experience provable? Are there some things so precise the chance of them happening are a billion to one? When does logic not work to explain daily happenings and synchronicity, and how many times must it be 'proven' to be scientific ? If anyone looks for these things in life, they will see them. Is this not the proof? Are not our dreams proof of altered mind states? Why is it so hard to accept that personal experience is just as valid as scientific knowledge, and is the basis for a whole new reality.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: the line [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2561397 - 04/14/04 11:44 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Experiences are yours...don't ever feel like you need to prove them to someone or let someone make them feel invalid.

Some people's worlds are very narrow. To think that everything can be confirmed scientificly is laughable.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: the line [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2561610 - 04/15/04 12:42 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

If it was just me seeing what is happening in my life, then I would wonder about their "prove-ability" and whether I was just crazy, or just seeing synchronicity where it didn't exist.

There are other people that know me, that don't know each other, that have inevitably commented on how things seem to work out in my life. How "lucky" I am, or how "charmed" I am. And not just because I told them what happened. They have witnessed it first-hand.

If it was just me seeing it, I would have to agree I am probably just crazy. I frequently remind myself, when I think "maybe I'm just crazy," that others have witnessed these things, too.

Is that sufficient evidence, or not?


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: the line [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2561667 - 04/15/04 01:06 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

To think that everything can be confirmed scientificly is laughable.

"It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure." -- Albert Einstein

I tend to side with Einstein on this. I think that everything can be "explained" from a scientific standpoint...but that much of it would be useless as knowledge for the Human Experience because it would lack the the meaning that is central to our experience as humans.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: the line [Re: trendal]
    #2561685 - 04/15/04 01:13 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, I thought about that quote, but it's mostly rhetoric.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: the line [Re: trendal]
    #2561698 - 04/15/04 01:18 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

  :thumbup:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: the line [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2561814 - 04/15/04 01:57 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

  Thanks for the replies. I do not know why sometimes I want to prove my beleifs to others. Maybe it is a frustration that they are closed minded, and can not see something posative. Oh well, I have my proof. I guess when I die I will find out if my conciousness lives on, to confirm things... and even if there is no after life, reincarnation, heaven, I still think that practicing spiritual matters can improve life.

Is that sufficient evidence, or not?
:yesnod:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: the line [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2561847 - 04/15/04 02:10 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Well, as everyone would probably surmise from all my postings, and assuming that I talk in real life the way I do here, I get a lot of looks of disbelief. It's okay. I have decided, finally, that nothing is wrong with me. Others just can't see the world the way I can/do.

Is my view wrong? No. Is theirs? No. It's just a "matter of perspective", to quote Skorpivo. I have learned to get comfortable in my beliefs, to keep bouncing them off people, and adjust my thinking when someone or something is able to explain where my thinking is wrong.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: the line [Re: Frog]
    #2561941 - 04/15/04 02:37 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

ah kindred spirits...
the key is to realize that its not up to you to widen peoples tiny perspecitves, be satisfied with what YOU have seen, theres nothing more real.

Now if i could take my own advice id be set...


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: the line [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2563922 - 04/15/04 03:44 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Can this thinking be harmful?
Yes. As human beings we have the ability to affect each other. A belief in god may not be harmful in itself, but when people take that belief and use it as an excuse to kill and bring hate into the world... thats where I draw the line and insist a person investigates truth and reality.

Logic can explain daily happenings like synchronicity.

>Are not our dreams proof of altered mind states?
-Aren't dogs proof of the existance of canines?
The real question should be, do we accept dreams as reality? And to what end?

>Why is it so hard to accept that personal experience is just as valid as scientific knowledge
-There is this little problem called reality and truth. Science attempts to explain whats true in reality. The reason personal experience is not as valid as science is because 100 scientists can come up with the same conclusion on an instance while 100 people using experience will come up with 100 different results.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: the line [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2564243 - 04/15/04 04:43 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Why is it so hard to accept that personal experience is just as valid as scientific knowledge




The result is not the same, in fact they complement one another. Anyway, you can also look at science as something coming from personal experience, as science also changes its view constantly, it's not absolute and those personal experience are the ones steering its structure and development.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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