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The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator
    #4868039 -

Shroomerites of MR&P,

After giving it much thought I have reached a decision. I have decided to let the newly formed community of the Mysticism, Religion & the Paranormal Forum decide on my fate as a Local Mod for this forum.
The first one reading this thread will be the first one to know, I did not consult the staff yet about this and what will happen in this thread might be overruled by the Administrators, but I hope this will not happen.

Being a moderator could be compared to being a civil servant or, less formally, being a bartender. The Shroomery, like Soylent Green, is PEOPLE. What is a community without it's citizens or a bar without people coming over to have a good time?

When the cocoon that was SM&P burst open and the butterfly of MR&P came out, we all wondered what it would be. There it sits, the newborn butterfly that is this forum, carefully stretching its wrinkled wings, letting them stretch and harden and gain color to become what it is. At the moment that process of rebirth is pretty far underway, and even though the butter doesn't fly yet I feel it's almost there, advanced enough in the Becoming that I will trust my fate to it regardless of the outcome.

During the birth of this community I've been very present up until now and in this process I've taken some actions that were cheered by some and boo'd by others. I've received quite some mixed reactions about all of this and I've decided that the time is ripe to let the community itself sit in judgement over my position as a Moderator.
Please note that I?m not following policy here but rather am sailing on my own compass in this, I hope it does not occur but the administrators may overrule my decision.

---

This is how we'll do it:
I'm stickying this post for a week or so of respectful community discussion. If by that time the discussion is still ongoing or has yielded sizable response I will post a very straightforward poll with seven very clear choices. I feel one week for discussing and one week for voting allows almost all forum regulars a chance to vote, even if they are weekend internetters. When that poll has ran for long enough I will respect the outcome it will have. I would personally like to stay on but if the community decides otherwise I will ask of the administrators if they'll accept me stepping down from MR&P.

No matter what the outcome, the net result will be more community bonding and will be beneficial to the newborn forum, and like I said to me the Shroomery is people and far more important than my position in it. Feel free to give me the sack despite this harping if you feel its best for the forum.


*****************************************
I must ask you to not turn this into a spectacle. Do not pull in members who otherwise would not visit this forum. Do not apply peer group pressure. One man, one vote. This is as far as I know the first vote of it's kind so don't let it end up being a doctored one. One man, one vote, no outside members or lobbying. This is new for all of us so don't be the one to mess it up.
*****************************************


How to discuss this:

I will close this post with seven options that will be the exact options of the vote which will start in a week or so. Start your post with a cut & paste of the exact line you think to be appropriate, and then elaborate on it and discuss. Feel free to add more posts and make them differ. Put the good of the forum central stage and let the vote be a side dish. Far more can be had than laying off or keeping on one moderator: it's community building either way.
When the vote closes I will take full responsibility and respect it's outcome.
Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator - Discuss.

---

Should Wiccan_Seeker stay a moderator of MR&P?
please include your current choice in your reply

+3 DEFINATELY YES
+2 YES
+1 RATHER YES
0 NEUTRAL/BLANK VOTE
-1 RATHER NO
-2 NO
-3 DEFINATELY NOT

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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: Asante]
    #4868226 -

+3

Just watch the bias, my friend. You're a top notch Mod.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: Asante]
    #4868276 -

I'll be one of the first to reply. I'll be totally honest.

I think you embody the essence, knowledge, appreciation and understanding of what this forum subject is about. Knowing that to me means that you can best help it to maintain is purpose and integrity. Thats a +3

You are not afraid to act. Thats a +3

I think a few times you may have overreacted but not in detrimental ways. Thats +1

For example;

I was surprised when I saw a few threads moved, like the cat one and two of gomps.

True, the cat one turned out to be more cat appreciation, however, cats are mystical mythical spiritual creatures to many and so, I would of let it slide here. It served just as well in the pub. Not a big deal to me.

Two of gomps you said were more philosophical and so moved them. Gomps philosophies are a part of his spiritual philosophies and at the time, this was still the spirituality forum. At the time, I was also understanding that any post that was even philosophical oriented that one did not want to to debate could be posted in here. Gomps not a debater and never will be. I would let any spiritual or spiritual philosophy topic fly here just because not everyone wants to engage in a debate with them. I thought that was the initial purpose of creating this forum.

It would be nice to see you ease a little in that area, but otherwise and even still, I have no need or wish to see you go.

Besides, I run through wondering who I would like to see mod here and .......this is a tough forum to mod next to S&P an PAL because debate is bound to get heated and flare up in those.

Modding this requires a different approach. Any mod of this forum HAS to have an understanding and appreciation of how the abstract and right brain hemisphere serves us in life. They also HAVE to be a sensitive enough individual to appreciate that it is difficult for many to openly share beliefs, ideas and experiences of the nature of this forum and that it is also good for people to have a place to talk about this stuff with others and for them not to become discouraged. many in this world are to isolated and alienated not having others to talk about this stuff with and that can lead to depression. I don't want to see anyone allowed to be discouraged from opening up to abstract topics in this forum.

Maybe there are people who have those qualities, yet, I wouldn't know who they are because everyone became conditioned to play insensitive left brain only tough guy in S&P and bought into that, you have to rub yourself up against sand paper everyday to toughen up your skin mentality and that people should shut down their feeling centers and be on guard at all times to avoid discomfort. :thumbdown: What a crappy way to live.

If we are going to be able to care for and share with others and be able to relate and understand them, we need to sometimes, be able to let our guard down and open our feeling center and become a little bit vulnerable.

Anyway, I wondered if you moved the gomp posts because you thought he was a trouble maker because of his HEY ASSHOLES post. That one shocked me and I would've deleted it as he hoped it would be and asked for it to be and I would've warned him to reword in the future if he has something constructive to say.

He DID have something constructive to say. I'll share that to for mods to consider.

I've seen it at the shroomery and at other message boards where a thread starts off with really great well thought out ideas and discussion and then some jerky with his panties in a bunch comes along and starts instigating and flaming the crap out posters. Then mods lock the thread or sometimes, at others delete it. People get pissed because some took a lot of time to write the good stuff and some were having a decent convo they wanted to continue.

Gomps suggestion was to just delete the offensive words or replies, and keep the thread open and rolling. Thats all you have to do.  Move into that reply, delete just the the disruptive shit, give a warning and let the thread move on. If the flamer continues, he was warned and give him a 2-12 hr ban to cool off.

I want you to stay Wiccan and grow in getting to know and understand more of us and us you. You deserve and are worthy of a chance here IMO.

Quick comment to shroomism, you once said somewhere that your modding philosophy is to let things roll and just crack down from time to time when it gets bad. Things only get bad when they are allowed to progress into bad by letting rules get broken occasionally. It sends a message that it is okay to and it starts happening more and more and then things get bad, the crack down happens and people cry NO FAIR, he did, she did, why me?

Rules have to be consistently applied to all at every infraction if you are going to keep it from getting bad and keep from hearing "no fair" cries.

To all 3 of you who I think have the stuff to understand the nature of this forum, I would like to see you all post more in it. If you only get involved to enforce rules, people will see you as JUST the law and not as other human beings also having the psychedelic experience. From what little you 3 have posted in this area, I think you all have some really cool shit to share with us in this forum.

:peace: :heart: :toast:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: Asante]
    #4868321 -

-3

I prefer free speech and unvarnished opinions. Your actions are consistently in direct opposition. My opinion is that you are a terrible moderator, too quick to condemn the thoughts of another, too quick to view the comments of others through your very narrow and fuzzy filters, too quick to edit other people's posts (destroying content of threads) and too quick to institute bans.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4869378 -

+3


I think you're really one of the best mods on the site, in any forum. You're not afraid to take on people who try to destroy a whole forum, good job, don't go anywhere.


--------------------


Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve

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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: gdman]
    #4869503 -

+2 YES. only reason i am not giving you a plus +3 is because i don't know you very well yet and so i dont think it would be warranted to say you should definitely stay. however based on what ive seen so far you seem like an excelent person for the job to me.

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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4869646 -

Prosgeopax said:
-3

I prefer free speech and unvarnished opinions.  Your actions are consistently in direct opposition.  My opinion is that you are a terrible moderator, too quick to condemn the thoughts of another, too quick to view the comments of others through your very narrow and fuzzy filters, too quick to edit other people's posts (destroying content of threads) and too quick to institute bans.


-3 I am sorry to say this sums up my opinion also. I have nothing personal against you sir. I applaud your decision to leave it up to the community.(if possible) It's always hard to step down from something you love, but the strongest soul will be able to do so for the benefit of all and the good of the shroomery. It is also a hard decision for us to make but we must look to ourselves and speak for the good of the shroomery first and formost. This is not a popularity contest and I hope no one sees it that way. :thumbup: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (10/30/05 06:07 AM)

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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: Asante]
    #4869727 -

Being a moderator could be compared to being a civil servant or, less formally, being a bartender. The Shroomery, like Soylent Green, is PEOPLE. What is a community without it's citizens or a bar without people coming over to have a good time?



"The Shroomery, like Soylent Green, is PEOPLE."

Wow. Are you saying that the Shroomery serves people up in the same way as the movie? Some sacrifices need to be made to keep the masses fed and happy?

"being a bartender"

Good analogy to the current situation. "The management has the right to refuse service to anyone." Fact for the bar and fact for the Shroomery. "Drunk and disorderly patrons will be cut off." Yep. "Once you have been 86ed you can't come back in here ever." Yep.

"Civil servant"

No way. You had it right with the bartender analogy.

Now, as to you personally, I think you are the kind of bartender/owner that I would expect to dominate and control that situation just as you have done in the forum. Your bouncers would be big and nasty. There would be two of them just in case. The bouncers would hand pick the patrons allowed to enter at their subjective whim. On a busy night, many patrons would be turned away with no explanation by the bouncers. For amusement and to exercise power and control, the bouncers occasionally give a verbal slap to the turned down patron. The bouncers hope the patron responds in kind so that they can get even more verbal and ideally even physical with the patron. Kicking ass on a Saturday night, what could be better?

Once allowed into the bar, the lucky patrons would face a no-nonsense SOB bartender who serves at his pace and won't take any BS.

"WHAT ARE YOU HAVING?"

"What kind of beer do you have?"

LOOK PAL WE GOT 27 KINDS OF BEER. READ THE BOARD! HEY WAIT A MINUTE WEREN'T YOU THE ASSHOLE I BOOTED OUT OF HERE LAST WEEK? YOU GOT A LOT OF BALLS COMING BACK HERE. NOW BEAT IT!!

And so on.

The funny thing is, those kind of bars exist and many just love going there. I don't think those are the same kind who like The Shroomery and visiting the Mystical forum for a calming spiritual experience.

-1

I am countering -3 for inconsistent/excessive modship with +2 for your hard work and because you obviously care about the Shroomery.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

Edited by LunarEclipse (10/30/05 08:02 AM)

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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: Asante]
    #4870449 -

I think this poll is silly. Why you alone feel the need to do this, Wiccan, I don't know. There will always be people who hate particular mods for particular reasons. Your problem is that you tend be overly paranoid so you end up making polls like this.

First off. THe admin already gave you the clear to run this forum. That obviously means they believe you are competant enough to do so.

Have some confidence. You're not the most popular mod because you drop the hammer down like an anvil. It almost seems like a reflex. You have a clear image in your mind what you want your forum to be like, then when someone deviates from that imagery you drop the anvil in what appears to be a reflex reaction. You have to give people a little room to play around outside of the box. Otherwise we'll get restless and start trying to bite.

Your Jesus question comes to mind. You recieved some responses in which people declared they would throw hot coffee on Jesus or perhaps even run him over. Now, these are valid answers to your questions in my opinion. In fact, I would be interested in hearing more about WHY they feel hostile towards Jesus. If it's because they think killing Jesus will wipe out the religious right, then they both underestimate the pigheadedness of the religious right and are crazier then Our Lord and Savior ever was.

The point is...every response in this forum should be viewed as valuable, even if it goes against the grain and even if you don't personally agree with it.

Anyway...I think your job as a moderator in this forum is to promote the free exchange of ideas in a laid back discussion atmosphere.

If someone says they want to run over Jesus, they are expressing their opinion of Christianity (not necessarily bashing yours) and I thought opinions of all types were valued in this forum. And that the point of a mod in here was to keep conversation flowing (by removing flames which create needless blockage.) Not to punish people for sharing an unpopular opinion.

Maybe I'm totally missing the point of this MR&P.

But so far, I love it. It's the perfect place for a nutcase like me. Lots of room to breathe.

In closing...Wiccan, I am giving you a +2. I appreciate the way you try and keep this forum (and others) safe to communciate in free of any flaming comments. I also enjoy reading your long-winded replies to stuff (as long as they're not too long, in which case I skip them). I almost gave you a +1 but the fact that I can tell you are sincere through your posts (and I like sincerity) gives you an edge.

However, you need to be a little less sensitive about the posts in here and try not to let your immediate reflex be to ban or warn when you see something you don't like. It makes you come off like a dictactor. Or an overbearing parent, which in my opinion is in the same league as dictator. Let's try to let everyone flourish here. I thought the whole POINT of this forum is to let every mystical, religious and paranormal opinion (no matter how ludacrous, offensive or batshit crazy) have a place to call home.


So someone PLEASE let me know if I have the point of this forum all wrong but the above is the impression I got when MR&P was in the zenith of its creation.

So Wiccan. I will move my +2 up to a +3 if you just relax and chill out a bit. You don't have to manhandle this forum. Let it do its own thing for awhile. If you have to intervene then do so, but it better not be to punish someone for sharing an unpopular opinion. If I see that my +2 will become a -2 very quickly. How can we propagate understanding and growth in here if we aren't open to recieving hearts of every type?

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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4870654 -

Prosgeopax said:
-3

I prefer free speech and unvarnished opinions. Your actions are consistently in direct opposition. My opinion is that you are a terrible moderator, too quick to condemn the thoughts of another, too quick to view the comments of others through your very narrow and fuzzy filters, too quick to edit other people's posts (destroying content of threads) and too quick to institute bans.


Like I was saying in the other thread about Swami's thread about Christ, you are deciding what is spirituality based on whatever yardstick your using, and that is impossible and therefore destroys whatever harmony could have existed. I'm not sure whether or not this is just a part of the way you are, or if you just can't seem to understand that it can't and therefore shouldn't be done, but either way you should not moderate this forum at all. I think you would be MUCH better at moderating one of the scientific forums, since science is so much more easily recognizable. Therefore I give your modding of this forum a -4, and that includes a +1 for effort. Nothing personal, your personality would receive a +5, it's just the modding as it applies to this particular forum.


--------------------
:orly:


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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #4871523 -

+3


--------------------
The Soul exists simultaneously throughout all of Time.
The Ego merely exists now.

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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: Asante]
    #4871543 -

-3
If you must ask this is my opinion. You seem to be very biased and closed minded. Your definition of flaming and trolling changes depending on who is posting. You threatened me personally in the past, which qualifies as harrasment in my book. You have demonstrated poor judgement at every turn.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (10/30/05 07:17 PM)

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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: Asante]
    #4873879 -

-3

I'm sorry, but you are far more harmful to this forum than Swami could ever hope to be. You define certain people or beliefs as "anti-spiritual" just because they have spiritual beliefs that center around questioning reality and wishing to live without delusions. You take any thread that challenges people to take a different look at things than you might like, and consider it a direct insult to you. We need moderators who aren't prone to such petty childishness. Like others have said, it's nothing personal against you, and I'm sure you're a great guy otherwise, but you shouldn't be moderating this forum. You seem to do a fine job in ODD, and I fully support keeping you as moderator of that forum, but please stop the drama and get out of this forum.

P.S.: I nominate Markos to take your place.


--------------------

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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: Asante]
    #4874657 -

+3

I just want to you to know that i fully support you as a mod here at MR&P. Your dedication to stop cynicism and hypocrisy in the birth of this forum is invaluable. As a mod in this forum, we need someone that protects spirituality, someone that protects the people who want to freely and positively discuss spiritual issues, as matter of fact you work towards accomplishing this goal. Yes, you know spirituality is not about questioning the spirit, but about becoming the spirit :smile: :sun:

Thank you :thumbup:
MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: MAIA]
    #4874684 -

MAIA said:
Yes, you know spirituality is not about questioning the spirit, but about becoming the spirit :smile: :sun:


What an incredibly close-minded view. :shake:

If Wiccan_Seeker truly wanted to protect people who want to freely discuss spiritual issues, that would include those spiritual issues having to do with questioning reality and living without delusions(i.e. Vernon Howard threads).  Instead, he blasts such people as being anti-spiritual, simply because they do not conform to this close-minded view of spirituality which equates it with superstition.  Was Jesus anti-spiritual for questioning the wisdom of the Sanhedrin?  Was Ghandi anti-spiritual for questioning the authority of the British?  Blind faith and complacency are the antithesis of true spirituality.  That is where the true hypocrisy lies.


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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: Silversoul]
    #4874754 -

You have the S and P forum for discusion like this, you seem to be missing the whole point of this forum, this is not for skeptic vs. beliver discusion. This is the "kumbaya" forum, WS is doing a great job in it, if you want skeptical discusion go to S and P.


--------------------


Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve

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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: gdman]
    #4874880 -

I'm not referring to posts which question the ideas of another poster. I'm referring to posts which promote questioning as a path to spirituality. There's a difference between skepticism towards others' ideas and advocating skepticism as a spiritual path. W_S has labeled the latter as anti-spiritual, and even worse, as flaming, trolling, or baiting. That is extremely hypocritical for someone who claims to be protecting people who want to freely discuss spiritual issues. Skeptics should be free to discuss their spirituality just as much as anyone else. But W_S has shut the door in their face by refusing to acknowledge their spiritual beliefs as spiritual.


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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: Silversoul]
    #4874931 -

Please, the discussion is not about what i think spirituality is. It's about rating Wiccan.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: MAIA]
    #4874969 -

Way to miss the point entirely. The fact is that Wiccan's skewed sense of spirituality has influenced his moderation of this forum. It would not matter if he allowed non-spiritual posts, but the fact is that he censors and harrasses members whom he deems to be "anti-spiritual" simply because they do not conform to his close-minded notion of what spirituality is supposed to be.


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Re: The MR&P Community Vote -- Wiccan_Seeker as a local moderator [Re: Silversoul]
    #4875044 -

Maybe that is why they moved the Spirituality header back over into the Philosophy forum. The forum you are describing that should be, IS at the shroomery under the header Philosophy & Spirituality.

This one now has to do with Religion, Mysticism, and the Paranormal.

Now that this is not the official spirituality forum for a skeptical questioning path to Spirit, Wiccan's ability to judge what is and what is not Spiritual became moot.

Anyone who wants to practice the spiritual path you described can do so in the Philosophy and Spirituality forum. Wiccan isn't a mod there.

Wiccan asked about his ability to mod in this one which is about religion, mysticism and the paranormal and it has a different set of rules from P&S.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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