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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: Veritas]
    #4846704 -

that I am a sheep...because I'm afraid to face the consequences. :confused:

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: TameMe]
    #4846725 -

:lol:  Well, that's not quite what I meant.

IMO it is inaccurate to say that someone either is or is not "a sheep."  In this context, anyway, we are discussing the tendency to see ourselves as the victim, the prey, the powerless sheep.  This tendency is the "inner sheep."  :grin:

Do you see yourself as a victim because you fear the consequences of claiming your personal power?

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: Veritas]
    #4846745 -

Veritas said:
Do you see yourself as a victim because you fear the consequences of claiming your personal power?


I think so. Is claiming my personal power the same as defending my values? Expand on what claiming personal power is.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: TameMe]
    #4846775 -

Claiming your personal power involves the "unplugging" from other people's opinion of you (already discussed on this thread), as well as believing that you are responsible for your experience of life.

This is not the same as having 100% CONTROL of the events of your life. Of course we do not have a say in what windfalls or catastrophes we may encounter, but we definitely have a say in our response to what we encounter.

I went into this in some depth on another thread, here's a link:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4682782/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1

For more about this, I suggest Ken Keyes Jr. "Handbook for Higher Consciousness" and anything by Albert Ellis.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: Veritas]
    #4846787 -

So do I not have personal power because I would like to smoke a joint on the steps of the capital but won't because I am afraid to go to jail?

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: TameMe]
    #4846793 -

:lol: No, that sounds like a pretty sensible decision to me.  Since you prefer to be free to smoke it elsewhere, you choose to avoid the risk of imprisonment.  But do you feel victimized, or take responsibility for your choice? (albeit a restricted one due to the laws of the country you live in.)

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: Veritas]
    #4846804 -

I think I do feel somewhat victimized. A part of me though says "no I take responsibility and will just have to deal with it"....but then another part says that I'm a wimp and should break that law no matter what.

Edited by TameMe (10/24/05 05:42 PM)

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: Veritas]
    #4846837 -

"Of course we do not have a say in what windfalls or catastrophes we may encounter"

To some extent we do. You just have to be in the right place at the right time or avoid the wrong place at the wrong time. Still, accidents can and do happen.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: TameMe]
    #4846846 -

That's the key, though, you COULD choose to break the law & risk the consequences. You know that it is a choice. If you truly saw yourself as the helpless victim, you would probably insist that you HAD no choice in the matter.

Even the process of deciding whether the consequences are worth it to you acknowledges your personal power & responsibility. Whether you take the risk or not is really irrelevant.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: TameMe]
    #4846848 -

You are not a victim. The reason you can't smoke a joint on the steps of the capital building is that there are currently people more powerful than you (meaning greater in number) that have implemented a system in which this is forbidden. These conditions are out of your control, unless you stage some sort of revolt (but the odds are against you). Large scale revolt could be the ultimate solution, but it seems the motivation just isn't there. So life goes on as is for now.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4846864 -

Yes, Lunar, playing in traffic is likely to result in more catastrophes than sipping a lemonade in your backyard.

But, as a friend related to me last night, even your backyard is not perfectly safe.  A neighbor of his was mowed down by a semi that lost its' brakes while illegally "cutting through" a residential neighborhood.  Said neighbor was literally sipping lemonade by the pool when the truck killed him.  :tongue:

Carpe diem, folks!!

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: Veritas]
    #4846880 -

That is freaky.

So I guess I have personal power then. Wouldn't I need to realize it on my own instead of almost being convinced of it(and wouldn't convincing be like "saving")?

Edited by TameMe (10/24/05 05:58 PM)

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: Swami]
    #4846881 -

Swami is trying to Vulcanize everyone! Who, of you, are destined to become Romulan?


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: TameMe]
    #4846891 -

Learning does not need to be the result of giving up your personal power.  Critical thinking is essential, of course, to avoid accepting ideas which are "foisted" on you.  Testing ideas thoroughly in your own life is important, too.

Please, disbelieve me until you have proven to yourself that these ideas have merit for you!  :wink:

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: Veritas]
    #4847201 -

Pools are a liability and accident waiting to happen.

And wayward trucks can be hazardous if they hit you while you are sipping lemonade by the pool.  Obvious stuff!  :grin:


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: daimyo]
    #4854615 -

Romulans & Vulcans are not the same race. :rolleyes:

Are you referring to the Romulan values of racism (IOW supremacy) and conformity, or the Vulcan values of logic and rationality?

Edited by Veritas (10/26/05 01:12 PM)

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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