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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: Veritas]
    #4846203 -

I think this is what Jesus was talking about to the Pharisees when he was asking "who gave him that authority?" talking about John I think....and the point was that God (who is in the self or is the self) gives authority.

With out sheep....we'd have a harder time building stuff...or having wars.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: TameMe]
    #4846251 -

That assumes that we would not willingly participate in building projects or waging war.

Certainly, someone who believes first in themself, and second in everyone else will not undertake arduous or life-threatening endeavors which are without personal value.

Sheepishness does make people easy to threaten and bribe.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: Veritas]
    #4846269 -

I really don't think we would be able to muster the legistics with out a bunch of sheep. I mean to unite around some sort of cause and how to go about it....would take a lot of sheep-ish consensus.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: TameMe]
    #4846284 -

"The truth is your the weak and I'm the tyranny of evil men, but I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd Ringo." -Jules,Pulp Fiction

Sorry, couldn't help myself. :grin:


--------------------
In a state of anarchy every individual is their own kingdom.

Thou art God (but so am i :wink:)

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: TameMe]
    #4846336 -

I disagree that we need to be sheepish in order to cooperate. In fact, I believe that true cooperation cannot co-exist with sheepishness. Only compliance is possible when the "inner sheep" is running your life.

The "inner sheep" is what complies in order to avoid punishment/loss or receive a reward/gain. If we are attuned to intrinsic rewards, we can choose for ourselves which projects to participate in based on our values & needs.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: Veritas]
    #4846344 -

Cooperating is sort of being a sheep. If you disagree with someone but you let it slide just to hold consensus than to me that is sheep-ish. You are right that we can choose which projects...but certain projects take a lot of people and recourses and I don't think we'd get very far with a whole bunch of little projects going on.

Not everyone can be the pilot.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: Veritas]
    #4846351 -

I have to run, so I'll this will be brief.

A dog is not a sheep, but they can both be cowed.
And, a shepherd is not (always) an Alfa-male.

..V, Peace.


--------------------
In a state of anarchy every individual is their own kingdom.

Thou art God (but so am i :wink:)

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: seeker]
    #4846409 -

What is the opposite of an Alfa-male? It's not an effeminate-male is it? Because I think one of those would make a better Alpha-male than an Alpha-male.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: TameMe]
    #4846418 -

Quote:
If you disagree with someone but you let it slide just to hold consensus than to me that is sheep-ish.


This is not cooperation, this is compromise.  Cooperating is just combining efforts towards a shared goal.  No sheepishness required.

I think we may be talking about different definitions of "sheep."  Someone may be in charge of their own emotions and actions, and yet choose not to be the leader of a group.  Perhaps they respect the leadership abilities/vision of another & wish to contribute their efforts without the added responsibility of leading others.  Perhaps they are naturally introverted & find it more pleasant to be a "worker bee."

Not everyone wants to be the pilot. :grin:

Again, I am referring to SELF-shepherding, not being a leader of others OR a rogue who cannot contribute to group work.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: Veritas]
    #4846430 -

But acknoledging a leader...even if unconsious...is giving

Quote:
Veritas said: power away to others whom we see as more powerful.



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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: TameMe]
    #4846455 -

No, I disagree. When you give away your personal power, you see the other person as having overpowered you in some way. When you deliberately lend your energy and effort to a project you believe in, you do not need to be the designated leader in order to be "free" and in control of your own power.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: Veritas]
    #4846461 -

So what would a leader then be if he didn't have power over people? Or the power to influence people.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: TameMe]
    #4846484 -

A guide/facilitator/coordinator does not need to have power over others in order to be effective. The group can agree that "too many cooks spoil the broth" and appoint someone energetic, charismatic & focused to be the person who is in charge. This is a move for efficiency, not an abdication of their personal power & responsibility for their own actions/choices.

Government by agreement, rather than dictatorship, is what America was founded on. We wanted our leaders to rule a free citizenship, not a galley of slaves.

THIS is the difference between having personal power & agreeing to cooperate, and giving your power to others & feeling forced to comply.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: Veritas]
    #4846499 -

Another great post! You show amazing wisdom.

V for prez  :thumbup:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: Veritas]
    #4846524 -

Thanks for clearing that up for me Veritas.

I want to be on board with you completely but I'm still not. In some situations especially when values and morals come into play it seems the leader would be having to make decisions a little harder (and more persuasive) than just "you are the better cook..so you cook."

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: TameMe]
    #4846530 -

Expand on that...I'd like to know what you mean.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: Veritas]
    #4846546 -

Ok. Say...your crew decides they want to go to planet X....and it is the collective job of the crew to get them there....on the way something weird happens...like run into some nasty aliens....and you don't know whether it is better to destroy them or run....not everyone is going to agree....and so the leader must make a choice that will be followed. I'm thinking that as long as you dissent but stay in the project you might not be a sheep (but you must make your dissent known).

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: TameMe]
    #4846595 -

In that situation, assuming that the crew was not drugged, kidnapped & loaded onto the starship, they chose to join the mission, agreed to the leadership, and thus committed themselves to abide by the decisions reached by the leader along the way. If they disagreed with his decision about a specific situation, they could refuse to abide by that agreement, and face the consequences.

I'm not sure how this example shows that personal power is not compatible with group projects??

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: Veritas]
    #4846687 -

I think I'm beginning to see now.

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Re: Eliminate the Sheep [Re: TameMe]
    #4846700 -

:thumbup:  So how does this apply in YOUR life?

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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