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Amazon Shop: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Gypsum, Paul Stamets, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

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Invisiblewise_gardener
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Rye Grain Mix Moisture Test .... ! RESULT !
    #4589792 - 08/28/05 02:10 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Hi everybody,
I made a moisture test according to various mixes of rye grain. The ideal moisture for mycelium growth is 49-54%. Here are the results :

(I have use the same procedure for every tests. Weight 100 grams, in the oven 5 hours at 260 Fahrenheit, and recompute at the end)

1. First I calculate the initial moisture of rye grain. I toke 100 grams (without soaking, simmering or adding water)and put the grain in the oven at 260 Fahrenheit for 5 hours. I then recompute the grains for a total of 87.3 grams.
Result : ~12.7% moisture content

2. I try the Paul Stamets procedure. Using a 56%/44% grain/water ratio (120ml. grain / 90ml. water for me) directly in the jar and autoclaving for 1 hour at 15 psi. The final weight was 50.8 grams. The disadvantage is that this not kill endospores. Omitted this point, Paul Stamets have a perfect mix.
Result : ~49.2% moisture content

3. Here I try to soak the grain 24 hours in cold water, then rinse and drain for 20 minutes. Autoclaving 1 hours at 15 psi. Out of the oven, the final weight was 54.3 grams.
Result : ~45.7% moisture content

4. I try almost the same thing, but soak the grain in hot water at the beginning. The final weight was 53.8 grams.
Result : ~46.2% moisture content

5. Here I soak the grain 24 hours in cold water, then simmer 20 minutes, rinse and drain for 20 minutes. Autoclaving 1 hour at 15 psi. The final weight was 41.4 grams.
Result : ~58.6% moisture content

Conclusion : No method which kills endospores reached the ideal moisture/water content. To have use hot water at the beginning of the test number 4 give a little boost to moisture. I believe that to use boiling water at the beginning could make it go up enough to reach the 49-54% level. This would also have the advantage of sterilizing the water in which the grain will soak. I'll try the number 5 test too but simmering only 10 minutes instead of 20. I'll post an update!

Update : Don't forget that your adding 1 cc of water/spores in the jar. This increase a little bit the moisture content, perhaps by 0.5 to 1%.

Hope this help you choose a correct mix!

wise gardener


Edited by wise_gardener (08/28/05 03:07 AM)


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Offlinepuwtrip
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Re: Rye Grain Mix Moisture Test .... ! RESULT ! [Re: wise_gardener]
    #4589931 - 08/28/05 03:15 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

how about a simmer no soak?


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OfflineOddish
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Re: Rye Grain Mix Moisture Test .... ! RESULT ! [Re: puwtrip]
    #4589941 - 08/28/05 03:18 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Helpful info. I tend to do number four when I prepare my grain.


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Rye Grain Mix Moisture Test .... ! RESULT ! [Re: wise_gardener]
    #4590344 - 08/28/05 09:41 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Good experiment, Anno did something similar a few years back
Quote:

wise_gardener said:
No method which kills endospores reached the ideal moisture/water content.



They will all kill endospores if you PC for long enough. Using the Stamets method you can accurately determine your moisture content. People leave overnight in water to let SOME endospores germinate allowing them to be killed easily, it also allows water to be soaked up by the grain. Many seem to think the only advantage is endospore germination, but putting soaked grain in a PC will allow the full grain to reach 120C faster since steam/water will have to work its way into the dry grain. Presoaking also allows for more even moisture distribution in your grains, so not as much shaking is needed when you take them out of the PC.
If all the endospores germinated in the overnight soaking then you could get away with just a simple steaming.


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Invisiblewise_gardener
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Re: Rye Grain Mix Moisture Test .... ! RESULT ! [Re: blackout]
    #4591299 - 08/28/05 05:05 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

puwtrip, just found the old Anno post, this sould give you an answer :

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...true#Post866271

I'll probably try 3 to 4 other mix, i'll post an update, see ya


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Offlineaustio_ferocious
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Re: Rye Grain Mix Moisture Test .... ! RESULT ! [Re: wise_gardener]
    #4591387 - 08/28/05 05:35 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I've read many grain teks, and am still not sure I'm doing it right. I use the 24 hour soak then pc method. In the last batch, I mixed the grains and water in the jars, and after 24 hours drained and rinsed and refilled to where the water had been after the soak. I originally used a 1 to 1 water/grain ratio, this last time I used a little less water like 3/4-7/8 to 1. My grains seem to be very wet, lots of explodes, easily contam'd, ect. My question is this; is unabsorbed water drained off for pc'ing, or should the water in the bottom 1/3 of the jars be left during pc'ing?
would a simmer soak up most of the excess water, because the pc stage usually soaks up the rest, but it is still sticky and wet on the bottom. No matter how I shake. I thought about turning the jars over every other day or something to re-distribute the moisture, so it isn't wet on the bottom. Oh and the top looks kinda dry too.
I'm going to try number four on my next batch, let me know if that variation of number five yields better results as far as optimum moisture content.
Thanks
Very good thread! get's a five from me

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Invisiblewise_gardener
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Re: Rye Grain Mix Moisture Test .... ! RESULT ! [Re: austio_ferocious]
    #4591592 - 08/28/05 06:47 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

In fact, the moisture content of number 4 is too low, and the number 5 one is too high! Two variations of the mixture could compensate for the difference.

1. Instead of using hot water for soaking 24 hours, use boiling water! Boil enough water (enough to be able to soak your entire grain) 5 minutes (this will sterilize the water at the same time) and then soak your grains with this water 24 hours. Rinse well and drain for 20 minutes. Finally sterilize 1 hour at 15 psi.

2. Soak your grain 24 hours with room temp water, then simmer only 5 to 10 minutes instead of 20. Rinse well and drain 20 minutes. Sterilize 1 hour at 15 psi. (when simmering, you don't want to see your grain exploding, this mean that they reach their maximum moisture capacity, almost 59%, and that does not take into account the water of the syringe added thereafter)

One or the other should be fine. I prefer the first one. I'll try to test these mixtures in the next days and post an update, but both should reach near perfect moisture content. Like you, I experience grain sticking together in the mixture number 2 (several at the bottom) and number 5 (almost everywhere in the jar, in unit of ~2-6 grains). Number 2 involve water in the bottom of the jar and number 5 is only too wet I think so. I think that a little bit of gypsum can be use to resolve this problem. I do not have tested it yet, but I read some posts on the subject. Hope this help


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Offlineaustio_ferocious
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Re: Rye Grain Mix Moisture Test .... ! RESULT ! [Re: wise_gardener]
    #4597406 - 08/30/05 01:27 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, great! Thanks. I have been soaking at room temp for 24 hrs. then rinse, refill to original line and pc. pretty close to the number 5 listed, but without any simmer, and undrained. sounds like that's where I need to go. Simmer 10 minutes, drain for 20, fluff it up and put in jars to pc. They've definately been too wet, this ought to help, in fact I may want to go just a tad under the optimum water content, just to be on the safe side. That's what you do when you have trouble with bacteria right? (well, and a flowhood to make syringes, I just got mine made, haven't used it yet, so far it's all been still air and lots of bacterial infections... thank God for H2O2)
Thanks thanks thanks
GL friend


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OfflineBobo
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Re: Rye Grain Mix Moisture Test .... ! RESULT ! [Re: austio_ferocious]
    #4597695 - 08/30/05 03:09 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I just follow Agar's advice: Soak Rye/WBS/etc. for 18 or 24 hours.  Drain a couple of hours, but don't work too hard at getting all of the moisture out.  Toss some vermiculite into your jars/bags.  Shake 'em up.  PC.  Wetspot is hard to get if you toss some verm in to suck up and release moisture as the myc. needs it.  :sun:


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Amazon Shop: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Gypsum, Paul Stamets, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

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