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Re: Would appreciate a bit of advice [Re: scotsmushie]
    #4556486 -

scotsmushie said:
I feel very alone now, but this isnt the issue, the issue is the boundaries, and the kind of weird fear I have and anxiety I have around my mum and dad, I feel as if im walking on eggshells in this house


I wanted to respond here too. My suggestion is that the two issues are a lot closer then you might think at first. Here is how it would work. If you have a complicated relationship with your parents, where they are not meeting your emotional and physical needs, this is going to create a lot of anger in you (my parents are supposed to meet my needs, but they aren't), a lot of anxiety in you (is there something fucked up about me that they won't love me?), etc. However, if you realize that your parents are not meeting your needs, and realize that this is because they themselves are emotionally constricted, three things could happen. First, you could develop compassion for them (I love my parents, even though they are emotionally flat, and maybe they are in a hell similar to mine, and I can help break them out). Second, you can realize that the reasons they are not meeting your needs are different then the ones that are causing you stress (my parents are not meeting my emotional and physical needs, because they are emotionally constricted because of problems with their parents, not because my negative thinking is true). Third, you can break the cycle (my parents are not meeting my needs, so I can find constructive ways to meet them like massage therapy, this dissipates the anger I feel towards them, and then I can help them work on their isolation).

The way your writing has been, I really think the loneliness part of your equation is stronger then you realize. Think on it some.


--------------------
"I am eternally free"

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Re: Would appreciate a bit of advice [Re: tomk]
    #4556497 -

I will say this, I have never in my life had a "relationship" with a girl. I only have ever had sex when in town at night Ive got pished with my mates and then been back to theyre flat (or in a car in one instance) and shagged them, left in the morning feeling stupid (and trying to hide that fact)
I do feel a bit awkward if someone touches me in a friendly way, but I didnd in spain. I just feel like I am in this "other planet named hell" here where I live. I feel as if I HAVE MY DAD AND MUM TO A LESSER EXTENT LOOKING OVER MY SHOULDER AT EVERYTHING I SAY AND DO.

Because of this I feel it impossible to be open around people, just generally be a jovial nice happy character that is itching to get out, can you understand that? I hate it... and I WAS a different, happy person in spain, not anxious at all, because I felt as if they were not there looking over my shoulder, i had my own room/house to sleep at night.... THIS is the huge problem

I really do not have a big problem with touching, feeling, having a laugh talking rubbish or getting the "connection" of genuinely getting on with people, especially through the second part of the holiday... I also feel this to a lesser extent when I am in newcastle and go into the town myselfe (400 miles away) and when I visited an ex friend there.

I do not have trouble with the things you say I do if I was out of this place

I do have trouble living where I am in this "environment", I cannot emphasise this enough

I am a completely different character away from here



I cant answer those questions, because nothing is going to change my mindset while im living here, my parents wont change, and im too anxious walking about the town about people i dont want to, but know i almost certainly will, bump into

This is not really about me "changing my views" because I know how fucked up my views are... its about getting me feeling secure and in a situation where I feel like I am on a defensive 100%, 24/7 of the tim ... ie, in this house, where Im not meeting expectations, feeling ashamed of myselfe

I dont feel ashamed of myselfe away, because I dont have the expectations, only my own, which I am happy with.... but cannot be happy with here because of the environment, where I feel like I have to fake all the time which causes anxiety and makes me feel very low on self esteem, like im constantly being told "im not doing good enough"

I dont know, i am just ranting I think, i dont think this is going to be helpful, apart from now I know the problem is this codependancy

as you said tomk I need to get out, now, but I cant.... and life is getting more and more secluded and worse every few days now, it is like a early mid life crisis, and my parents dont know how to up my mood, they just know how to make me feel worse (albeit unintentionally)

I just need to get out and dont know how I can

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Re: Would appreciate a bit of advice [Re: scotsmushie]
    #4556517 -

tomk, would you like to know something....

I am a renound massager in the family, I gave my mum a massage at 4 in the morning last night, for 30 minutes.... because she "couldnt sleep and had a sore head" it was just after I pm'ed you about the codependance.... i have given my mum massages for years, offer her sometimes, and sometimes she will ask

It is my dad, not really my mum, who puts up this "persona" of being the authoritarian man of the house, who decides how everyone behaves.... and my mum just follows suit, and i have told her this (although of course she wont agree she goes along with everything he does)

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Re: Would appreciate a bit of advice [Re: scotsmushie]
    #4556524 -

its not a physical thing, it honestly is not.... its just the fact I cannot talk to them about anything or anyone in a nice way, it is allways "opiniated" like a discussion, as if they cant say anything that is "taboo" or "would not be right" for whatever reason

they have absolutely huge boundaries

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Re: Would appreciate a bit of advice [Re: scotsmushie]
    #4556538 -

but just have to say, my mum acts in a way like my dad of "i will act like this, very uninhibited, and very proper, because thats the way we're meant to act, not like a rogue, or someone that the government or medisa says bad things about"

just cause i give her massages, it does help a little bit, ie I feel alot less insecure and anxious around her than my dad

but we are still miles apart in terms of our thoughts beliefs and the WAY we socialise and show emotion

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Re: Would appreciate a bit of advice [Re: scotsmushie]
    #4556599 -

OK.  We need to clarify the word 'views'.

First, there are the thoughts your mind puts out.  These are things like "I don't think this is going to be helpful."  "I just need to get out."

But that isn't what I'm talking about when I say I want to change your views.  What I want to work on is something else.  It's simply matching up those thoughts your mind puts out with things like emotions, bodily feelings, anxieties, early childhood experiences, etc.  The way to remove your automatic negative thinking isn't to struggle with it.  Instead, it's to take the time to understand it completely.  Lets take a problem I had for example, and I can show you how the process works.  About 9 months ago, I was feeling really oppressed by my homosexuality.  This was causing me huge problems with depression, anxiety, etc, and I was quite suicidal.  But, when I tried coming out to my best friend, I just couldn't do it.  I kept trying, but I kept finding reasons that I wouldn't do it.  This drove the cycle, making me more anxious and depressed.  Then my friend was set to move on me.  :frown:  This made me quite sad, but I also felt like I had to do it before she fell out of my life, or I would hate myself forever for it.  Of course, this created more guilt and anxiety.  I felt helpless.  During this process, I tried to repress my sex drive more and more and more.  It was only when someone pointed out that I was behaving like I was completely touch adverse, did I realize that I had a different problem.  In exploring this other problem, I released some childhood memories of my dad throwing shit at me, throwing shit at my mom hard enough to put a hole in the wall, etc, as the root of my being anxious and jumpy all the time.  Then, I was able to pinpoint the reason I was having trouble coming out.  I had a memory in my head where me and my dad had some stupid fight during his visitation, when I was maybe 9 or so, and he dropped me off at my moms house all alone, during a hailstone, while I was locked out and left me there.  Only by exploring and reliving this memory was I able to release it.  After releasing the memory, dealing with my big problem (coming out) was easy.  However, in order to deal with it, I had to adress the real problem, which was an intense fear of being abandoned by people who were supposed to love me. 

I'm not trying to change your mindset directly.  What I'm trying to do is make some connections, including to things beneath the surface like emotional needs, physical needs, etc, between what you think about your situation and what the reality of it may be.  I know from experience and studying psychology, that the problems that bubble up in our life usually come from holding something else, tangentally related, in.  The purpose of my questions is to probe around and find these connections, so that you can release these issues. 

I believe you when you say your immediate problem is your environment.  However, you can see for yourself that one sign of co-dependency is to always blame external factors.  You can also see for yourself, scroll up, that you are very reluctant to place any of these problems inside of you.  For example, "although I obviously may not have been perfect."  You soften something that would place some blame on you with a may.  You never do this when talking about your parents, or your friends.  I have no doubt your parents are a huge problem for you.  But, even if thats true, you are going to find yourself drawn to recreate these patterns in the future, and have to be alert for that down the road.  You can start making progress now, so that in a month or two when you move out, you won't fall right back in the same trap with someone else.

Look, if you feel so helpless, why not try something new?  You can't answer my questions because nothing is going to change your mindset while you are living here?  OK.  Answer them because it will help you change your mindset once you are away, and focus on both getting away and starting to change your codependent problems. 

By all means, get away from that town right away.  It sounds like you may be to close to the problem with your parents to solve it while living in their household.  Maybe you have some other family far away that could help you out.  Maybe you could find a job at a ski resort for a winter where they hook you up with room and board, <===this is a really good way out for you, and a lot of the people might be in similar situations, so you would have a peer group of people you could relate to somewhat. and you could save the money to afford your own place after.  There are lots of ways out, man.  :laugh: 

There is also a very real possibility that some of your anxiety and depression is biologically based.  I think you need to see a doctor about this.


--------------------
"I am eternally free"

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Re: Would appreciate a bit of advice [Re: tomk]
    #4556614 -

Also, it may help you a lot to find a place in nature you can go to every day that can be yours. Find some woods or something where you can go, sit, clear your head, and just think 'things are ok here there is no way they can be looking over my shoulder, no one can bother me here.' Then, go there and just be at peace for a while. When you are about to go home, say 'I'm going to go back to the war zone for a while, so that I can get out of there, but this is my home, and I'll come here for peace.' Creating a refuge from your hectic home life may help ease the stress as you prepare to move out. It would also be something you could do to feel some autonomy in your life.


--------------------
"I am eternally free"

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Re: Would appreciate a bit of advice [Re: tomk]
    #4556727 -

Thanks for taking the time to reply in depth again tomk

I understand what you are saying and can agree with most of it actually. I am not very "open" about my part in it because, I feel I am being blamed 100% for everything here, when I know the majority, by a long way of it isnt my fault (its not my fauly i rebel and do not do what im told when its unreasonable, and get pissed when they try to control me) **but theyre "excuse" for controlling me and getting pissed at me so much, even though i tell them it dosnt work is "well I cant help if im angry, can i?" bulllllshit** anyway thats like me saying "i cant help not doing what you say because i fucking want to!" it is not a viable, rational, fair excuse.... so to admit fault which I do openly to my parents of some behaviours I do, when they ADMIT NO FAULT whatsoever, and sidetrack that issue.... its very difficult for me to not be soft about this issue of fault on my part, for those reasons.

On another note I will answer the questions you wish...

2, Contradiction part - Yes, I can see the contradiction between me saying I want an attractive partner and a "genuine connection" but I didnt mean it to come across as that, I first of all want the "connection" then have the attractiveness later.... but I am very picky in how a girl looks even just for a "shag" never mind going out with.... that is inbuilt, i just am picky - but yes there is a contradiction, but on the other hand, my male friends can look however they want, its not a discussion there

1.(got 1 and 2 mixed up) Yes, I can see that I will allways think the way ive been imprinted living here.... as I feel like theyre allways leaning over my shoulder to tell me if its wrong what ive done, its why I know I must leave as soon as possible or itl get worse. I wish I could think in a different way, but being in so close contact with them I cant

3. I have never had a shoulder to cry on, but the social group I went with never ever cried in eachother anyway, as Ive told you before this was a "macho" type "dont show love or emotion, just have a laugh" type group of people I was "friends" with.... this didnt bother me and it dosnt bother me as ive never wanted to cry on theyre shoulder, because of the way we act towards eachother.... and im not "touch deprived" no, and for the record, I do hug my mum now and again, hugged and kissed her before and after i was back from holiday. not because i want to, but because i want to show i do care, because I know they do, in a different way

4. Yes, about my dad and indirectness, I see this and the way I am talking, mate I even noticed it tonight in the way i spoke to my little sister, its not a nice way to speak to someone and makes them feel uneasy.... and actually as soon as I noticed it, i immediately after I said it said it directly as a follow up, I do not want to be like my father at all, but know he has imprinted his bullshit ways onto me to an extent, but i try as hard as possible to not follow his ways, but its very difficult subcinsciously not to... i imagine..

5,I have never ever harmed myselfe and dont think about harming. Actually, I think about "wouldnt it be easy to die, and imagine if i just jumped off the quarry" type thought but I know I would never ever do it, and it is not "serious" even when im most depressed,.... because I look at myselfe and know when I get to the stage where I'm happy which does happen odd days, and when I'm away, i remember I have alot going for me. I and can relate very deeply which happned on my mushroom trips, and I felt much love and respect and appreciation on it to the people I was around, all we did was laugh and smile and talk to eachother and not think about what to say, anything went.... thats why I thought it was the ego loss, I didnt have boundaries or think "i cant lose any face" or think of my "ego" and "reputation" if u get me

cheers anyway mate

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Re: Would appreciate a bit of advice [Re: scotsmushie]
    #4556763 -

The reasons I thought I lost ego, was because... I didnt have any whatsoever "leaning over my shoulder" it was just me talking, and I got on with everyone so much "nicer" and "respecting and caring" not in a loved up way, but a really laughing contented way, like how a cat purrs (haha cheese is smelling there but its one way to put it)
This I thought, is me, and im not a bad person at all, and people like me, im happy and know when i get away from my living quarters I can act like this without complete rejection and embarrassment and fear.

Like last september, me and a mate who hadnt tripped before, were talking about his holiday on the shrooms, and about a very funny thing that happned at work to me (when I fried a fish in plaster of paris not batter - long story) we were literally in hysterics for hours and so was his mum, dad and girlfriend (they didnt even know we were on shrooms just surprised we were so happy and giggly) then.... when I got picked up by my dad, there was literally immediately this feeling of complete unease and "ohhh, dissapointing kieran is in the car, i wont say anything to him" its probably not even what he was thinking but i felt it very deeply there... He asked me how kevins holiday was and when I told him about the wet Tshirt competition and some other things we (and his parents even) found funny, EVEN telling it on my tripping giggly just out for fun and laughs kind of way..... HIS fucking response was "what?... oh" .... "is that what you think of as fun?" As if i had to justify my actions in finding this very amusing, as if, my god, i am terrible terrible no good finding this pathetic thing fun, I am not a good or correct person finding this behavior FUN which is what it is

This sprung to mind just now, just as I was typing about the appreciation and contentment i feel around people on shrooms, and the complete opposite, sadness with my father

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Re: Would appreciate a bit of advice [Re: scotsmushie]
    #4560478 -

Well, An update for you who are still with this.....

Tonight I had a massive argument with my mum and dad

They wont accept theyre parenting has had this effect on me, and say that i make the choices, so its all down to me

Even when i say i feel this and that, they allways have a counterargument for it, and my dad said "no no, its talking about parents who are dysfunctional through drug abuse etc" not parents who are anything to do with rule setting and un emotional ifthat makes sense

They wont accept any of this, even after reading him symtpoms and what it causes which adds up completely with me, and even my sister on another type of it

They will not accept this, even after giving them pages to read on it

completely not accepting, now im considering getting a very lnog house job and saving up to go to india again, but i dont know, i dont have a clue

what do you think is the best bet, going to a phycologist and asking him how I can "get away" instantly, or what, anyone got any ideas or options?

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Re: Would appreciate a bit of advice [Re: scotsmushie]
    #4562387 -

Quote:
I could say something like "You're fat." with the intention of gaining information about you, and the way in which you respond would tell me information. I could do this even if I didn't think you were fat, or had no way of knowing.


manipulation?


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger

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Re: Would appreciate a bit of advice [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4563714 -

Well tonight, there is a new era to this sad tale...

I had an argument with my mum about something, she wouldnt say I "wasnt in" to one of my "friends" wanting me to go to a concert to see his friend tonight.... I just didnt wantto say no for no reason because i think its not very nice to to that and not make an effort, but didnt want to say no, because im so pissed off now i dont even feel like i can go and enjoy myselfe and ill be thinking the whole time trying to act "happy chatty"....

anyway she wouldnt do it because "im not lyeing for you - i just wont do that" so she would not make my situation easier

then my dad wanted to "talk to me" about the problem and give me his "take and advice on it" well it got a bit heated, i said I dont want to even talk about it with you because i dont like wht youre saying, so i said look dont talk to me while im here now, just leave me alone i dont want to communicate with you..... she said something about me (mum) so i shouted im not going to communicate with you in youre pathetic way that is you just want me to lick up youre ass and give as much respect as possible for people who just anger me! (or something like that)

SO she came in, in a rage...... (she has never done this before... we have argued for a few days about the codependance thing, my dad is in complete denial about it and my mum is "beyong caring" (ie she knows but dosnt want to admit it) anyway she has never gone beserk and tried to thump me hit me and slap me, but MY MUM came for me, hit me and slapped me pretty hard with me blocking myselfe....

I got up after a minute of this, and yelled at the top of my voice how she is a "fucking whore,,, hate my parents, absolutely hate you as muc as i can hate anyone" yelling in the heat of the moment.

I dont think knowing its codependancy thing is helpful for getting on with my mum and dad because now theyre very defensive about it, and just keep saying theyre rules arent unreasonable (even tho its not just that that is the problem)

I went to my room and havent spoke to them, it was about 8 it happned, and ive came downstairs for something to eat now, at 1am

I actually do hate my parents, its lke talking to robots.... I really do hate them and feel masssive anger towards them, they just will not come down to my level ever, it has to be on there terms, even the "way" i speak

They reprimand me for swear words, so calling my mum a fucking whore loud enuogh for the street to hear isnt going to go down well

bring on tomorrow

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Re: Would appreciate a bit of advice [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4563715 -

Well tonight, there is a new era to this sad tale...

I had an argument with my mum about something, she wouldnt say I "wasnt in" to one of my "friends" wanting me to go to a concert to see his friend tonight.... I just didnt wantto say no for no reason because i think its not very nice to to that and not make an effort, but didnt want to say no, because im so pissed off now i dont even feel like i can go and enjoy myselfe and ill be thinking the whole time trying to act "happy chatty"....

anyway she wouldnt do it because "im not lyeing for you - i just wont do that" so she would not make my situation easier

then my dad wanted to "talk to me" about the problem and give me his "take and advice on it" well it got a bit heated, i said I dont want to even talk about it with you because i dont like wht youre saying, so i said look dont talk to me while im here now, just leave me alone i dont want to communicate with you..... she said something about me (mum) so i shouted im not going to communicate with you in youre pathetic way that is you just want me to lick up youre ass and give as much respect as possible for people who just anger me! (or something like that)

SO she came in, in a rage...... (she has never done this before... we have argued for a few days about the codependance thing, my dad is in complete denial about it and my mum is "beyong caring" (ie she knows but dosnt want to admit it) anyway she has never gone beserk and tried to thump me hit me and slap me, but MY MUM came for me, hit me and slapped me pretty hard with me blocking myselfe....

I got up after a minute of this, and yelled at the top of my voice how she is a "fucking whore,,, hate my parents, absolutely hate you as muc as i can hate anyone" yelling in the heat of the moment.

I dont think knowing its codependancy thing is helpful for getting on with my mum and dad because now theyre very defensive about it, and just keep saying theyre rules arent unreasonable (even tho its not just that that is the problem)

I went to my room and havent spoke to them, it was about 8 it happned, and ive came downstairs for something to eat now, at 1am

I actually do hate my parents, its lke talking to robots.... I really do hate them and feel masssive anger towards them, they just will not come down to my level ever, it has to be on there terms, even the "way" i speak

They reprimand me for swear words, so calling my mum a fucking whore loud enuogh for the street to hear isnt going to go down well

bring on tomorrow

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Re: Would appreciate a bit of advice [Re: scotsmushie]
    #4564162 -

Well scotsmushie, I read your story and I'm gonna offer up my two cents on the matter...

First of all... a lot of parents think that their children and children in general have no sense of right and wrong and no idea of what is right for them so the parents take it upon themselves to make shure that the child does what is right. This can be forcing the child to go to college or enforcing a 'no drugs' policy or whatever. The problem with this however is that the only person who can know what is the right thing for you to do, is you.

Second... it sounds as though you've had some valuable experiences that have shown you what your life could and should be. Experiences with mushrooms and your trip to spain. What you experienced in Spain is what your life should be like but it is very hard to live like that in your current situation because you feel 'boxed in' for lack of a better term by the people around you. They think that they know you and so they have come to expect certain things from you. Certain actions and behaviors. So when you're around these people you often unintentionaly act this way. But when you're in a new environment around people you don't know, you're free to be who you really are.

So my advice for you would be to get a job and save up just enough money to get out of your town. Don't take any rash actions like joining the army, simply relocate yourself, grow some mushrooms (optional), and make a fresh start with a clean slate.

I sincerely wish the best for you
and I hope your life improves soon  :thumbup:

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