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InvisibleSinbad
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The Awakened View *DELETED*
    #4346016 - 06/28/05 06:16 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by Sinbad

Reason for deletion: tired of verbiage



Edited by Sinbad (06/28/05 08:10 AM)


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Invisibleninjapixie
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: Sinbad]
    #4346143 - 06/28/05 08:54 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

How attached is your ego to this 'awakened view?'


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Put that monkey back in the oven.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: Sinbad]
    #4346154 - 06/28/05 09:08 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Must you really know the concepts to be spiritually awakened? Must you even be able to speak and understand language?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: Sinbad]
    #4346162 - 06/28/05 09:19 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:

After that we need to practice remaining in the state of equanimity where no notion of self is held in mind, the state of egolessness.(non-meditation). This solves the entire problem. Its like cutting the tree at the root: all branches, twigs, leaves wither at the same time. To have dissolved ego-clinging and to be stable in the knowledge that realizes egolessness is simply another description of freedom, liberation, great peace, or "The Awakened View". This is extremely profound, and it is real.




Why do we need to do this? Go ahead and deny your instincts, your humanness, in an attempt at something intangible. What is the point?


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: looner2]
    #4346185 - 06/28/05 09:43 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

My wife collects magnificent recipe books, but hardly cooks.
She has great respect for recipes.
I make something like bouillabaise every day with no recipe.
I have hunger and routine driving those actions.

some feed on recipes, some feed on showing them to others; well, some old recipes are really great; without traditionalists we might forget them.

I think that is what is happenning here. A connaiseur of spiritual recipes has presented another for admiration and critique.

I forget was that a cup of sugar or 2 spoons of honey...


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: looner2]
    #4346195 - 06/28/05 09:55 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Quote:

Sinbad said:

After that we need to practice remaining in the state of equanimity where no notion of self is held in mind, the state of egolessness.(non-meditation). This solves the entire problem. Its like cutting the tree at the root: all branches, twigs, leaves wither at the same time. To have dissolved ego-clinging and to be stable in the knowledge that realizes egolessness is simply another description of freedom, liberation, great peace, or "The Awakened View". This is extremely profound, and it is real.




Why do we need to do this? Go ahead and deny your instincts, your humanness, in an attempt at something intangible. What is the point?




How did you come to the conclusion that im denying anything? If you have no problems and you are perfectly happy as you are, then you don't need this.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4346199 - 06/28/05 09:56 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Must you really know the concepts to be spiritually awakened? Must you even be able to speak and understand language?




No not exclusivley, but it certainly helps to know the theory, before you practice anything.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: Sinbad]
    #4346226 - 06/28/05 10:25 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I understand Sinbad, but how many of us are ready to let go this society and this "system" ?

Egolessness, if taken objectively, involves the suppression of many social interactions. An ego-less person will hardly function in a egoistical system - like the western materialistic system -, that's why really ego-less person choose to live alone or among equals.

Egolessness is an ideal, as some other ultimate ideals, we have to work hard to achieve it. We can feel free even if incarcerated in the worst dungeon as long we have ideals. But at the end what really counts is not reality itself, but the way we see it. Egolessness is just a way to change it, but even after living under it, you still matter, or else you wouldn't be practicing it.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: MAIA]
    #4346244 - 06/28/05 10:40 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MAIA said:
I understand Sinbad, but how many of us are ready to let go this society and this "system" ?

Egolessness, if taken objectively, involves the suppression of many social interactions. An ego-less person will hardly function in a egoistical system - like the western materialistic system -, that's why really ego-less person choose to live alone or among equals.

Egolessness is an ideal, as some other ultimate ideals, we have to work hard to achieve it. We can feel free even if incarcerated in the worst dungeon as long we have ideals. But at the end what really counts is not reality itself, but the way we see it. Egolessness is just a way to change it, but even after living under it, you still matter, or else you wouldn't be practicing it.

MAIA




Its just not true that in a western society one cannot function being ego-less. People creating such limitations about ego-lessness , but the truth is, that there is none, this sense of "ego" is what limits us spiritually. The only thing that changes if you are ego-less, is you state of mind and attitude, you become happy, content and more compassionate. For example, when dreaming, if you notice that its a dream, does that mean you cease to be able to function within that dream? When i lucid dream, i just continue doing everything in the dream, the only difference is that I'm aware that it is a dream, so things don't effect me emtionally in the same way as if i took it for reality, i can relax, meditate and take control, in fact one can function without limitation if one realizes, when dreaming, that one is in fact dreaming.

Egolessness is not an ideal held by the ego. :lol:

Egolessness is simply when one investigates into the nature of the 'self' and discovers that in fact, there is no 'self' or 'ego' that exists. There is no permanent, self-existing entity there, everything is interdependent upon everything else. And everything is equally empty of independent existence, and equally dependent upon space for its manifestation. The only reason you would practice, is to get more used to and familiar with that realization.


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Edited by Sinbad (06/28/05 11:49 AM)


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: Sinbad]
    #4346355 - 06/28/05 11:53 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Egolessness is not an ideal held by the ego.

Egolessness is simply when one investigates into the nature of the 'self' and discovers that in fact, there is no 'self' or 'ego' that exists. There is no permanent, self-existing entity there, everything is interdependent upon everything else. And everything is equally empty of independent existence, and equally dependent upon space for its manifestation. The only reason you would practice, is to get more used to and familiar with that realization.




Are you aware there are different concepts of egolessness ? :wink:
But anyway, if defined by buddhism i guess you're right ...  :smirk:

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: MAIA]
    #4346364 - 06/28/05 11:57 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah sorry about that. I was just comming from my POV. Of course i realize that theer are other definitions of "ego". I just never took them into consideration when writing my post.  :tongue:


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: Sinbad]
    #4346431 - 06/28/05 12:39 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"I","me","myself" ... vohara-sacca.:shocked:

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: MAIA]
    #4346435 - 06/28/05 12:44 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

:lol:

*** remember to leave those words out of ** posts in future master  :japsmile:


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: Sinbad]
    #4346469 - 06/28/05 01:00 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

:grin:

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Offlinedante
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: MAIA]
    #4346483 - 06/28/05 01:05 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"After that we need to practice remaining in the state of equanimity where no notion of self is held in mind, the state of egolessness.(non-meditation). "

I don't understand why you call this practice non-meditation. Could you explain?


--------------------
The clouds above us join & separate,
The breeze in the courtyard leaves & returns.
Like is like that, so why not relax?
Who can stop us from celebrating?

-Lu Yu


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: dante]
    #4346847 - 06/28/05 03:23 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Yes of course. Meditation involves some effort of anazlysis, concentration or visualization. Whereas non-meditation, implies just letting go in a state of total relaxation and eqinimity and remaining that way.

In mediiation, one recognises when one is distracted, and returns there attention back to the object of meditation, where in non-meditation, when one gets distracted, one simply recognizes that, lets go, and returns to relaxed equinimity again.

But first one has to meditate, in order to calm the agitated mind. Them when one is calm, then one can apply the method of non-meditation.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: Sinbad]
    #4346891 - 06/28/05 03:37 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

after samatha, vipassana starts anyway.
call it what you like,
concentration and relaxation lead into insight.

even if you start with insight practice, it is samatha until relaxed and concentration is established.

even if you start with chakkra concentration, after relaxation is established it turns to insight/vipassana.

sure - tons of recipes.
when hungry - eat.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4346956 - 06/28/05 03:52 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Samantha, Vipassanah...relaxation

are you guy talking about hookers?  :smirk:


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4346985 - 06/28/05 03:57 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Well, not exactly. Some people get very stuck in Shamtha practice, and mistake the stable experiences of bliss, clarity and non-thought that arise during shamtha for the state of liberation. Most people really do have to remember to relax and turn the concentration inward, applying the method of Vipsassana to attain liberation through insight. Of course for some, this comes naturally, but not for all. That why its best to explain Shamatha practice as something other than Vipassana, and make the distinction, otherwise one can get very stuck in their practice. Why else would Shamatha be called something different than Vipassana?


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Edited by Sinbad (06/28/05 04:04 PM)


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OfflineVulture
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Re: The Awakened View [Re: Sinbad]
    #4347352 - 06/28/05 06:09 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

i feel good because of this post


i need to quit doubting myself when it comes to these things.


--------------------
Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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