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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Awakening; Realization..
    #2217111 - 01/03/04 07:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Markos said this in the "From atheist to Christian" thread, and it really got me thinking, but really wasn't on that topic, so I'm posting it here... thanks a lot, man! :thumbup: Much love!  :heart:

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Over the years, and decades, it began to dawn that my entire life of awareness is life in a Living Presence which does connect things together - like the neuronal connections of a brain, only it is space-time itself which is connected thusly, and we are all a part of its fabric. The fabric - the space-time continuum - creation - is created in each moment by the Creator. Our failure to see it is our failure: our attachment to the physical plane, our sinful refusal to Be Godly, not GOD's fault for not providing each human with a special Revelation.




Awakening is a term that comes to mind, realization... I think of how I tend to come into a higher state of consciousness more often.. just a natural progression of thoughts that lead to it, I guess...

Little, singular thoughts (well, of course not singular, because of the all the connections to the meaning of words and feelings and experiences) that I once enertained and played with back while smoking some good bud, they have now formed into something bigger, connected with other beginnings of concepts, started to become understood...

Its like a puzzle, I know the pieces fit. :grin: The more pieces of all these different concepts and ideas you put together, the more ground we cover exploring and formulating these concepts, the more we see the picture, what this truly is... eventually we get to a point where it becomes very easy to see where the gaps are, and what pieces will fit in there...

Self discovery, really. And, hell, if we all work together, we will discover a lot faster!  :laugh:

I mean, if you just take a minute to sit back, maybe smoke some good smoke, get relaxed, put on some good music, and just follow thoughts, and think about how much knowledge we have already.. all the little divisions of employment, areas of study... we know so fucking much. All the knowledge we have in history, regarding plants and animal life, architecture, the vast collection of literature...

Think about languages. How many languages are spoken on this little planet? Unbelievable, how much information there is there. My god.

Climbing the ladder of consciousness is quite the process, it is realization. Everything is connected, every last detail, it all creates reality... we will eventually realize that this is just a puzzle, after all, and we will finish it and hell, maybe even hang it up on our wall, and then go and pick up the guitar and enter that reality.... :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2217269 - 01/03/04 09:07 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

What?

There's a lot of Buzzwords and filler in there.

But, my interpretation of your piece is that awareness is the realization that there is a lot of information and things in this world are infinitely complicated. Is that what you are saying?

Quote:

I think of how I tend to come into a higher state of consciousness more often..




What is this higher consciousness and why is it beneficial?

Quote:

I mean, if you just take a minute to sit back, maybe smoke some good smoke, get relaxed, put on some good music, and just follow thoughts, and think about how much knowledge we have already.. all the little divisions of employment, areas of study... we know so fucking much.




How does this facilitate higher awareness and self realization? It sounds like being a marveling stoner. Play to emotion?

Quote:

Think about languages. How many languages are spoken on this little planet? Unbelievable, how much information there is there. My god.




There is a little over 2000 languages. How does this lend itself to ungodly amounts of knowledge. Everything tangible can be conveyed with one language.

Quote:

Climbing the ladder of consciousness is quite the process, it is realization.




Climbing the conscious ladder is realization of what?

Quote:

Everything is connected, every last detail, it all creates reality... we will eventually realize that this is just a puzzle, after all, and we will finish it and hell, maybe even hang it up on our wall, and then go and pick up the guitar and enter that reality....




You could also realize that everything is connected by watching the Lion King. It speaks volumes on the circle of life.

Eluding to transcendance after highlighting the inter-connectedness of life seems like a non sequiter and once again a play to emotion. I'm really not sure what you are saying.


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2217280 - 01/03/04 09:13 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

can you feel the love tonight?  :wink:


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: Mitchnast]
    #2217306 - 01/03/04 09:26 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

can you feel the love tonight?




I don't follow.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2218034 - 01/04/04 08:17 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Hehe, its been a long time since someone has engaged me in a debate, so I'm a bit rusty, but I'll do my best.  :smirk:

Quote:

SpecialEd said:
There's a lot of Buzzwords and filler in there.

But, my interpretation of your piece is that awareness is the realization that there is a lot of information and things in this world are infinitely complicated.  Is that what you are saying?




Buzz words? I assure you I am not familiar with these buzz words, I only know the meanings of the words that I use and used them.

Anyways, I'm not saying that awareness is the realization that there is a lot of information and things in this world are infinitely complicated. Awareness, to me, is being conscious. It is being able to take inputs from your senses and, well, recognize them as such.

Of course, everything is somewhat aware, but the awareness is filtered through us, and a lot of us really limit what we are aware of...

I think what I was saying is that the more aware you become, the less you have it restrained and filtered, the more you understand the connections between everything, the patterns... how you can find parallels between the way your mind forms connections within you head and how networks are formed in the world...

Quote:


What is this higher consciousness and why is it beneficial?




Higher consciousness, well, there are levels of it, of course. However, it has to do with how free your mind is, breaking free of addictions that have our actions programmed...

It is beneficial because one is more aware. Our consciousness isn't being cut off by all of these demands from the programmed addictions of security, sensation, and power... One's mind is clear and is more capable of acting to your benefit sucessfully... Life becomes infinitely fufilling and loving and free, man.  :grin:

Quote:

How does this facilitate higher awareness and self realization?  It sounds like being a marveling stoner.  Play to emotion?




It doesn't directly tie in with higher awareness and self realization; I sort of went off in a different direction... but it ties in with relfection, I think, taking a moment to think about how much ground we have covered and the progress we have made... there's nothing wrong with losing yourself in thought every once and awhlie and really appreciating things.  :grin:

Quote:

There is a little over 2000 languages.  How does this lend itself to ungodly amounts of knowledge.  Everything tangible can be conveyed with one language.




The fact that there is almost 2000 different expressions of just one little word and its meaning (keeping in mind that some of these languages are going to be close to others and some words can tend to be the same, most of the time it is just different pronounciation..) goes to show something, doesn't it? That was all I was trying to say there. I find it something to ponder about. hehe

Quote:


Climbing the conscious ladder is realization of what?




Life? The more you free your mind and have an unblurred perspective, the more you are capable of developing a true understanding of this life and what it entails....

Quote:

You could also realize that everything is connected by watching the Lion King.  It speaks volumes on the circle of life. 




Everything has clues towards the connections. My lung's formations say a lot on that.  :smirk: ("Can you feel the love tonight" is one of the songs from that movie, that is what he was referring to. hehe)

Quote:


Eluding to transcendance after highlighting the inter-connectedness of life seems like a non sequiter and once again a play to emotion.  I'm really not sure what you are saying.




Well, I wasn't really presenting a straight forward thing on one topic. Basically just following thoughts provoked by what he said. Take what I've said as whatever you want. Lately I've found that there isn't a lot of things that I really have that I'm dying to get acrossed and discuss... It must be that damned old age getting to me.  :laugh:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2218991 - 01/04/04 08:26 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Buzz words? I assure you I am not familiar with these buzz words, I only know the meanings of the words that I use and used them.





I was just cautious because a lot of new age writing is saturated with buzz words...ENERGY, DENSITY DIMENSION...


Quote:

Awareness, to me, is being conscious. It is being able to take inputs from your senses and, well, recognize them as such.




By that definition, everyone is AWARE...how can you achieve higher awareness, and what does it entail. Being prone to detail doesn't signify higher awareness, it is just looking harder for details.

Quote:

Of course, everything is somewhat aware, but the awareness is filtered through us, and a lot of us really limit what we are aware of...




It is essential to life that I am not aware of the billions of events that are going on around me. I am composed of billions of cells, each with nuclei rich in dna that are commanding the other components like mitochondria that facilitate ATP metabolism. It does me no good to be cognizant of this.

Quote:

I think what I was saying is that the more aware you become, the less you have it restrained and filtered, the more you understand the connections between everything, the patterns... how you can find parallels between the way your mind forms connections within you head and how networks are formed in the world...





It's interesting, but everything follows a pattern for a reason. Nature usually works in the most efficient way. With that in mind, there is nothing fascinating about phenomena like the golden ratio,
it is akin to electricity travelling the path of least resistance.

Quote:

It is beneficial because one is more aware. Our consciousness isn't being cut off by all of these demands from the programmed addictions of security, sensation, and power...




You say those addictions are programmed, I say they are natural and are beneficial to life.


Quote:

The fact that there is almost 2000 different expressions of just one little word and its meaning (keeping in mind that some of these languages are going to be close to others and some words can tend to be the same, most of the time it is just different pronounciation..) goes to show something, doesn't it? That was all I was trying to say there. I find it something to ponder about. hehe




If you study liguistics and their history, there would be nothing baffeling about similarities between languages.

Quote:

Life? The more you free your mind and have an unblurred perspective, the more you are capable of developing a true understanding of this life and what it entails....




I doubt you will find any answers though. We are all here for a limited time and we never find answers.


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2223921 - 01/06/04 08:10 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SpecialEd said:
You could also realize that everything is connected by watching the Lion King. It speaks volumes on the circle of life.





it also speaks volumes on feeling of the love... tonight.
and lets not forget hakuna mattata


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2224891 - 01/07/04 03:30 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SpecialEd said:
You say those addictions are programmed, I say they are natural and are beneficial to life......If you study liguistics and their history, there would be nothing baffeling about similarities between languages.




Well, I'm not one to say any path is better than the other. The reason that I like working towards an higher awareness is because a lot can be discovered about a lot of things, and it is enjoyable for me to completely take in an experience...

As for programmed addictions, I'd say that they aren't natural (this word can't even be used, really) and aren't beneficial to life.. any more. We aren't fighting for survival every minute... we don't need instant reflexes that act for us when we are fully capable of thinking on our own....

And, by the way, I wasn't saying that there was anything baffling about similarities between languages. It wasn't what I saying there at all. :grin:

At any rate, I don't even remember half of what I said or half of what I should have in here, so I'm sort of indifferent right now... Myself, I find that it just comes on down to living your life, taking in the experience, and making decisions consciously... I might have an instinct to either fight or run when someone confronts me, but that doesn't mean I have to follow what it demands I do. Living life consciously is something that at least I have found to be a great thing.  :thumbup:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2224897 - 01/07/04 03:35 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Living life consciously is something that at least I have found to be a great thing




That's where you're wrong. The way to be is in a vegitative state with intravenous feeding.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2224902 - 01/07/04 03:38 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Huh???


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: Frog]
    #2224909 - 01/07/04 03:40 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Nothing.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2224911 - 01/07/04 03:41 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SpecialEd said:
That's where you're wrong.  The way to be is in a vegitative state with intravenous feeding.




:smirk:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2224916 - 01/07/04 03:44 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I hate "nothing" as an answer! I demand to be let in on the secret!


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: Frog]
    #2224919 - 01/07/04 03:45 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I hate "nothing" as an answer! I demand to be let in on the secret!




I'll never tell


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2224951 - 01/07/04 04:05 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'm bored. I'm going to bed. Good night. *sniff*


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflinePedM
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Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2226692 - 01/07/04 07:51 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

>>> MarkostheGnostic said:
Over the years, and decades, it began to dawn that my entire life of awareness is life in a Living Presence which does connect things together - like the neuronal connections of a brain, only it is space-time itself which is connected thusly, and we are all a part of its fabric. The fabric - the space-time continuum - creation - is created in each moment by the Creator. Our failure to see it is our failure: our attachment to the physical plane, our sinful refusal to Be Godly, not GOD's fault for not providing each human with a special Revelation.


If we understand that objects and phenomenon are dependent upon mind, we must rule out the notions of beginning, end, and an external creator. A Creator figure cannot be external because such a figure exists subjectively. It is not the error of attachment to the physical plane which has been our fall from grace, rather it has been our grasping at permanent and objectively existent self-sense which has kept us bound in the sufferings of the cycles of life.

How can we understand that objects and phenmonenon are dependent upon mind? Consider the following:

We respond to objects or situations depending on what those things are like. If an object appears to our mind that we do not like, unpleasant feelings arise. Our mind develops attachment to objects which we find enjoyable, aversion to objects that we find unpleasant, and indifference toward objects which provoke no feeling at all. We feel in everything we encounter that we are becoming aware of what's actually there.

We feel we are correct about that awareness. If somebody becomes irritated with us, and says harmful things to us, we may go to our friends or family and share the story, thinking "I'm right about that person, I know them. They are inconsiderate." We don't tend to experience things as though we have an opinion of them, we experience them as though that's how they actually are. If someone disagrees with our experience, we assume that they are misjudging or otherwise incorrect in their view. We may think that they are stupid, or impaired in some way. We assume objective truth in everything we experience, and that if others do not concur with our view, they are erred by some obstruction that prevents them from seeing correctly.

This is the worst mental habit we have. It creates enormous divisiveness, insecurity, hatred, attachment, confusion. Immense suffering. More-over, it keeps us perpetually out of sync with the true nature of reality.

We feel the need to grasp on to objective truth because we feel the need to protect ourselves, and we possess categorizing minds. We feel the need to grasp at past events and impute our identity on them. We may remember an embarassing mistake we made, and think "I am clumsy", assuming it to be objectively true, as though "clumsy" were our name. We feel the need to anticipate the future, to prevent unfavourable objects from appearing, and to allow favourable objects to appear in abundance. We cannot relax, and continuously experience a chaotic and turbulent mind. We cannot flow and simply be, because we are always grasping at non-existent objects in the past, present, and future. We do this because we grasp at our sense of permanent objective self.

We are always thinking ahead as a means to protect oursevles from potential circumstances to which we feel aversion. We make assumptions about other people, about objects and situations and how they may unfold. We do this because we think doing so protects us from events which make us unhappy. We think it is possible to become happy this way because we believe that our self exists seperately from the objects and experiences it enounters. But it doesn't work. The world is a mess, and everyone everywhere experiences suffering and misery on a daily basis.

When we encounter certain objects or people frequently, objective imputations become deeper and deeper ingrained. We may come to view our new apartment as "warm", "quiet", "spacious", "nice". Eventually we come to feel as though it is "home". Finally, we may come home to our apartment after a long time away and step inside feeling as though we've just come home to ourselves. We think "I", and associate our identity with it. We have developed strong attachment. We view it as external, independent, in our posession. It is none of these things.

If a guest were to enter our apartment to return a borrowed item, his mind would experience none of these things. He might come away from the apartment assuming that it is objectively "messy". If the appearance of the apartment were objective in the way that it is experienced, all beings would experience it the same way.

There are absolutely no objective truths.

We instinctively feel there is an objectivity existent self amidst objectively existent and unfolding people and events. The consequence of this is self-cherishing. We feel that an objectively existent self is most important, of highest priority. From here, all suffering arises. All suffering and wrong views have their root in this delusion. Here, there is war, poverty, violence, hatred, discrimination, cold indifference, pride, self-loathing, depression, discouragement, worry, fear, anxiety. Here lies the psychosis that allows us to harm others. All suffering everywhere can be traced back to this one mistaken view. We view ourselves as objectively existent, and view the objective existence of others as less significant than our own. How can we see ourselves this way? If it were an objective truth, everyone would view us this way. There would be no disagreements. We would be king of the world from birth until death.

There are only subjective truths.

Take the example of John. John has a son, Mike. John and Mike visit Bill, John's father. To Bill, John is his son. But to Mike, John is his father. There are feelings associated with either of these views. In the minds of both Bill and Mike, "son" and "father" are imputed and experienced as objective truths. But John cannot at the same time be both "father" and "son" objectively. The experience of "father" and "son" are entirely subjective truths, yet everyone involved experiences them objectively.

All things exist to us this way, and we make this same mistake in all our experiences. Wisdom realizes that all things exist subjectively.

We agree upon some things. We all view the moon as objectively existent, hanging in the sky. We all agree that there is a city called New York. Almost all of us agree that cold weather is terrible. These things become conventional truths. When somebody disagrees with conventional truths, we feel they are stupid, or dangerous and insane. We feel the need to distance ourselves from these people. We feel hatred or fear, or both of these.

Where is New York City? If we removed Manhattan from New York City, would it still be New York City? What if we removed all the surrounding boroughs, but kept Manhattan? Would that still be New York City? What if we took out all the business real estate and left the residential property? Would that be New York? Where is New York? None of these things are New York City on their own. How does an amalgamation of them create New York City? We can infer New York City does not exist objectively.

Where is your keyboard? If we plucked out all the vowels, would it still be a keyboard? Maybe not. What if we removed all the keys and put them into a red bucket? Is the keyboard in the red bucket, or is it still on the desk? What if we broke the remaining bits into tiny fragments and put them into a blue bucket? Is the keyboard in the red bucket, or the blue bucket? Does it still exist at all? All the parts that made up the keyboard are present, but they are no longer recognizable as a keyboard. This is because the existence of the keyboad is entirely subjective. It exists entirely in dependence upon the presence of an observer with a mind of imputation and categorization.

An animal does not encounter a keyboard and think "buttons", "plastic", "grey", "IBM", "USB", "Space Bar". It sees only a solid object. And even the animal is mistaken in this view. If we melted the keyboard into a pot of murky wax, the imputation of "solid object" would disappear, but all the elements that gave rise to such an imputation would remain. We can infer that nothing exists objectively.

All things exist this way. The most subtle aspects of our experience exist this way. Ultimately, there are only subjective truths. Realizing this profoundly, we can escape all the sufferings of our grapsing, our self-cherising. We can shed the imputation of "favourable circumstance" and "unfavourable circumstance", and cease the anxiety of attachment and aversion. We can eliminate the error of inequity, and bring equanimity to all the people and situations we encounter. We can cease harming others, and halt the conditions of experiencing harm from others.



Ped's back for the time being, btw.


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Invisiblechunder
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Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: Ped]
    #2226765 - 01/07/04 08:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

That was an incredible post Ped.

I for one am very grateful to have you back!


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: Ped]
    #2226788 - 01/07/04 08:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Ditto.  Nice post!  And welcome back!  (Did you leave just to get attention?  :wink:)


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: Ped]
    #2227075 - 01/07/04 11:30 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

If we melted the keyboard into a pot of murky wax...

If I understand you correctly, then it would hard to input this message, right?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,849
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 2 months, 23 days
Re: Awakening; Realization.. [Re: Ped]
    #2227510 - 01/08/04 06:04 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

*slinks into the background*

:eek:
Wow, man, good stuff. Great to have you back. No way in hell would I have been able to go that deep into it...  :thumbup:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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