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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Phluck]
    #4321756 -

I was just reading about Nick Pope... and it doesn't seem that he has any evidence other than interviewing people who claim to have been abducted.

How is this evidence? Why would you make the claim that he had evidence and that I was some idiot drop out, when the guy clearly doesn't have any further evidence than any other people?

Were you intentionally lying? Did you think that if you just made up the fact that he had evidence that I wouldn't look it up? Why do you feel the need to lie about this, danEo?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Phluck]
    #4322676 -

Like I said, evidence is entirely something else when talking to both religious nuts and alien enthusiasts. They say God or aliens exist b/c the bible or Nick Pope, respectively, says they do.

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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Redstorm]
    #4324682 -

>>>I've read all of your links, but they all come from biased sources. They are people who WANT to see them so they do

The evidence IS NOT from biased sources. A biased source has reported on the evidence, but then any newspaper or information bulletin will have its own goal giving it a fundemental bias.


Go ask the military yourself then if you don't believe news reports jeez!

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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Phluck]
    #4324710 -

>>>Blurry photos and anecdotes are not evidence.

Thats why he has pulled out a load of official military incidents.

If you have read anything on UFO's you cannot deny that there are craft flying in our skies being detected by our governments that are most likely alien in origin.

Technology leaps by our own government is highly unlikely when the craft have been seen to travel through space / teleport and do all sorts of things that we are no-where near understanding yet.

Most skeptics will even agree that UFO's have been seen since at least 1940. Humans had only just learnt how to build planes!


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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Phluck]
    #4324715 -

Me and you both know 'evidence' is objective Phluck.  :evil:


WHY do you feel the need to incinuate that I have lied about this???!!!


Let us test your credability for saying this is not true as mine has been equally tested for saying it is!
Now this is where the real problems with this whole proof arguement start to shine through!


So many people have seen this shit that have NOTHING to gain but predujice.  Lawers, astronauts, scientists, and military personel.  What will it take to convince you?  If you say seeing it for your own eyes then I suggest that you do not believe anything.

I don't believe anything 100%.  Why?  Because there is always the posability that it is wrong.

I believe I am alive.  I can test and 'prove' that I am alive.  But still I only believe this 99.9% because its possible that I am not!  Quantum mechanics also suggests this to be correct...

Edited by danoEoboy (06/22/05 02:40 PM)

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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Ego Death]
    #4326238 -

WHY do you feel the need to incinuate that I have lied about this???!!!

You obviously were implying that Nick Pope had some kind of evidence that would discredit what I was saying. I looked him up, and he has no such thing. Either you're lying, or you're only vaguely familiar with Nick Pope's "evidence".

So many people have seen this shit that have NOTHING to gain but predujice. Lawers, astronauts, scientists, and military personel. What will it take to convince you? If you say seeing it for your own eyes then I suggest that you do not believe anything.

The fact that lots of people saw things that they couldn't identify isn't evidence of anything.

I know you aren't a christian... but would you agree that lots of people believe in Christ, and believe that they have experienced his love firsthand? Doctors, lawyers, teachers, all who have nothing to gain from lying?

Does this prove that Christ is Lord and the bible is literal truth? Of course not, it just shows that even intelligent, educated people often believe in nonsense.

I believe I am alive. I can test and 'prove' that I am alive. But still I only believe this 99.9% because its possible that I am not! Quantum mechanics also suggests this to be correct...

Quantum mechanics is completely unrelated to what you're talking about.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Ego Death]
    #4326246 -

If you have read anything on UFO's you cannot deny that there are craft flying in our skies being detected by our governments that are most likely alien in origin.

I've read various things about UFOs, and nobody is denying that people have seen things they couldn't identify, but there is absolutely no evidence that would demonstrate that they are most likely alien in origin. Simply stating that the evidence is so great we can't deny it isn't an argument. You have to actually present the evidence, which you have repeatedly failed to do.

Your only argument is "WELL IF YOU READ IT YOU'LL BELIEVE IT".

If the evidence is THAT GOOD, you should be able to explain it to us, and we'll believe it ourselves. If it only seems that good when you read it through the words of a convincing writer, then it isn't actually that good, he's just written successful propaganda.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Phluck]
    #4328149 -

>>>You obviously were implying that Nick Pope had some kind of evidence that would discredit what I was saying. I looked him up, and he has no such thing. Either you're lying, or you're only vaguely familiar with Nick Pope's "evidence".

All I've said is that he brought to light important military accounts of E.T craft.  Considering he still works for the ministry of defence, how can you not consider this as good evidence??? Jeez.

>>>The fact that lots of people saw things that they couldn't identify isn't evidence of anything.

Thats just it.  They are identifing it.  When you see a large metallic hovering craft emmitting a loud buzz with multicoloured lights on it, am I supposed to 'Actually dear, it looks like a bird to me' or would you say 'its something out of this world'.

Sounds like you assume spacecraft to mean ball of light in distance.  You've become hung up on the common explaination and been completely ignorant to the thousands of people who have seen these ships close up.

Its obviouse that not all UFO's would be alien, I thought common sense would have us taking that for granted.

It is the fact that we have seen the ships close up.  I have too.  We have seen their occupants.  Why would so many different individuals with nothing to gain lie about such a random thing???  You cannot explain that can you?


>>>Does this prove that Christ is Lord and the bible is literal truth? Of course not, it just shows that even intelligent, educated people often believe in nonsense.

Like I said ealier theres no evidence for God.  Nobody sees him.  Nobody even lies about seeing him.  So why are so many people lieing about seeing the ships or/and their occupants? 

:ooo: :cool:

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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Ego Death]
    #4328290 -

danoEoboy said:
Like I said ealier theres no evidence for God.  Nobody sees him.  Nobody even lies about seeing him.  So why are so many people lieing about seeing the ships or/and their occupants? 

:ooo: :cool:


People claim to see God all the time. They are dismissed as crazy.

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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Redstorm]
    #4332344 -

Alrite then,
provide evidence and links for professionals seeing (with their eyes not some I saw the light stuff) God as I can for professionals seeing alien ships close up.

The fact that you will EASILY FIND a military or official person who has seen a UFO close up and believes it to be alien in origin where as it is hard to find somebody who claims to of seen God and still maintain their sanity, is telling you something!

Considering how mediarised and popular religion is, I would expect it to be the other way around!

Can you understand where I'm going with all this?

The common belief is that people have been deluded by films and TV. They see a blip of light in the sky and scream alien!

If this true then equally there would surely be at least this same belief, for SANE professional people, to believe they have seen God!


Dam that was hard to get out.

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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Ego Death]
    #4339118 -

The fact that you will EASILY FIND a military or official person who has seen a UFO close up and believes it to be alien in origin where as it is hard to find somebody who claims to of seen God and still maintain their sanity, is telling you something!

Well, it would be, if you hadn't just made it up to justify your beliefs. Many politicians, businessmen, preachers, etc... will tell you about their experiences with god. Go to a church, for chrissakes, and ask anyone there to tell you about their experiences with god and you'll get dozens of stories.

Simply stating something like "sane people don't claim to have seen god" doesn't make it so.

...and the reason you can "easily find" a member of the military that claims to have seen a UFO isn't because they are extremely common, it's because there are groups of people who desperately want to prove UFOs are aliens, and have collected as many accounts as possible, and posted them on websites and written books.

Most people with strong religious beliefs have some kind of experience that they use to justify these beliefs. It's unlikely that there are more alien believers in the army than believers in some kind of religion.

Also, what makes a member of the military more credible than anyone else? As far as I know, military personnel aren't any more likely to be educated, intelligent, or rational than the general population.

Also, what is it about seeing a craft up close that would allow people to confirm it was extraterrestrial? Jupiter license plates? Last time I checked, flashing colorful lights were a technology we had pretty much mastered.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

Edited by Phluck (06/26/05 02:28 PM)

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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Phluck]
    #4341629 -

I wonder how many people became UFO "believers" from watching "The X-Files"....

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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Phluck]
    #4342112 -

Quote:
Many politicians, businessmen, preachers, etc... will tell you about their experiences with god. Go to a church, for chrissakes, and ask anyone there to tell you about their experiences with god and you'll get dozens of stories.


true...but how many of them actually say that they have seen God?

Quote:
As far as I know, military personnel aren't any more likely to be educated, intelligent, or rational than the general population.


also true...but a member of the military is also more likely to identify what a miltary aircraft would look like.


Mathematically speaking...the chances of humans being the only intelligent life forms in the universe are pretty small....not to mention somewhat arrogant.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"

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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Rono]
    #4342313 -

true...but how many of them actually say that they have seen God?

Well, there are certainly quite a few of them. Unlike UFO believers, Christians don't tend to collect as many anecdotes about seeing god as possible. A lot of people have devoted a lot of time to cataloging accounts of UFO sightings, but people haven't spent that much time doing the same for God sightings. There could quite easily be an equal amount of people making the claim that they've seen god, but without a large collection, it's impossible to measure. I'm sure we've all heard at least some stories about people claiming to see god, but seeing god isn't a crucial part of the christian faith.

Mathematically speaking...the chances of humans being the only intelligent life forms in the universe are pretty small....not to mention somewhat arrogant.


That argument does not make any sense. Theres quite a big difference between the odds of there being other intelligent life in the universe, and the odds that the thing you saw flying around was one of them visiting us.

Imagine I find a coin on the ground. You claim it is an ancient greek coin, I say it is not. Would providing evidence to me that the ancient greeks had coins be evidence that the coin I found was an ancient greek coin? Of course not.

While it may seem arrogant to assume that we're the only intelligent life out there, is it not at least equally arrogant to assume that there are not things more curious or thrilling than life or even intelligent life? On our own planet, life is very diverse and strange, there are many species with their own unique traits, why do we assume that the first group we'll encounter will share our interests and desires, and possibly even our appearance?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Phluck]
    #4342602 -

>>>made it up

PROVE IT

You want my proof so much, so I ask this of you. PROVE THAT MY STATEMENT WAS INCORRECT.

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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Phluck]
    #4342629 -

>>>a few of them. Unlike UFO believers

That was exactly my point.


You have an error in your logic.

Tons of professionals are (in YOUR eyes) deluded because they claim to see alien craft.  Yet very few professionals have claimed to of seen God yet God and religion is far more popular/thought about than aliens!!! :eek:


>>>dozens of stories.

We are talking about professionals seeing it with their own eyes.

Don't try to manipulate the point we are disputing.


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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Ego Death]
    #4342650 -

You want my proof so much, so I ask this of you. PROVE THAT MY STATEMENT WAS INCORRECT.

Your reading comprehension skills are quite lacking. I didn't say it was incorrect, I said you made it up. Have you done any surveys or studies to compare the number of people who claim to see god to the number who claim to have seen UFOs? Have you read any studies or surveys that compiled this data?
Didn't think so.

Therefore, you made it up.
Where else could you have gotten that information?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Ego Death]
    #4342712 -

Tons of professionals are (in YOUR eyes) deluded because they claim to see alien craft.

Could you show me where I said they were deluded? Lots of people have seen things, some have made the claim that the crafts are alien (which is obviously jumping to conclusions since there's no way to verify that).

Believing in strange things does not make you crazy or deluded. Being mistaken about something does not make you crazy or deluded. Once someone makes a claim about something, they tend to back it up at all costs.

Yet very few professionals have claimed to of seen God yet God and religion is far more popular/thought about than aliens!

How did you get that information? I've been trying to look this up, to see if I could get an idea of how common the claim to have seen god is, but there are no repositories of stories about this. Since you obviously have some numbers at your disposal (how else could you claim to know that only a few professionals say they've seen god?), could you please direct me to this information? Because it seems to me that there are quite a few professionals who claim to have seen/encountered god. Of course, unlike aliens, God isn't something someone might mistake an airplane for, or a bird, or various astological phenomena, etc...

danEo, How do people know that the crafts they are seeing are alien? Even if they don't look like anything they've seen before, this is not evidence that they don't come from this world.

You seem to believe that in order for someone to be mistaken about something they would have to be insane. I've mistaken things for other things lots of times. Waved to someone down the street who I thought was a friend only to realize they were a stranger, etc... This does not mean I was temporarily insane.

It's also a well established fact that memories distort themselves, even in rational, sane people.
Here's an article about it:
http://flatrock.org.nz/topics/science/seeing_is_believing.htm

Often people's memories do not match the reality of the event. This has been well researched, as it has huge implications in the courtroom. Not only are people unable to remember details of things that happened, but they will often CLEARLY REMEMBER FALSE INFORMATION. This includes sane, honest people, and yes, even professionals.

Perhaps you remember the whole scandal with implanted memories a while back? There was a technique psychotherapists would use to try and bring up repressed memories in patients, but the problem was, it turned out that people were too open to suggestion, they would begin to remember things that hadn't actually happened to them. After a few false convictions for things like child abuse, the practices have changed.


Don't try to manipulate the point we are disputing.

What the hell was I manipulating?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Phluck]
    #4343509 -

If they are not from this world where are they from and what are they?

These people are seeing something very bizarre. Its mechanical, its intelligently controlled and defies our all known human technology. I thinks its therefore reasonable to assume it is non-human.

Then considering the way they have behaved around our commercial aircraft and fighter jets, considering the fact that many credible people have seen the occupants of the craft, considering how long man has been visited for, considering the fact that it would be naive to think that an advanced alien race would not of suppased our stupid limitation theories, considering the chances of us being the only life in our vast universe (multi-verse even). Everything points to the likely hood that these things are extra-terrestrial. There is no evidence that they are anything else. Unless I suppose its possible that they are all weather balloons. Maybe it was a weather ballon that abducted Barney and Betty Hill or Travis Walton?

If something out of star trek hovered above your head, buzzed you then disappeared, what would you do?

Claim its just a very close meteor, even though its blatently no less than 20-30 feet away from you. Of course not.

You do exactly as I have done and believe you have seen an extra-terrestrial craft.

I've already said, I know that nobody can know anything 100%, I mean we could all be in the matrix or anything.

All I believe 100% is 'I am thinking' because I feel the essence of my soul or self.

I spent ages battling with Swarmi to realise he was just yelling "I know alot about misidentification", it seems you're doing the same. So I will tell you, I realise exaclty what you are saying. I see it everyday too, people thinking/believing something but it is that very belief that has created their reality. I know!!!

But not everybody is like that. The majority are credible good people with no reason to make up such stories of close encounters. I don't care much about blips in the sky, they are to far away to be accurately identified. Theres hundreds of accounts from profesionals seeing the craft CLOSE UP!

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Re: Major UFO breakthrough in Brazil [Re: Ego Death]
    #4343556 -

But not even one bacteria without DNA has ever been produced by all these people who claim first-hand up close and personal contact with aliens. :thumbdown:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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