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Invisiblemicro
bunbun has a gungun
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Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City
Re: Genetically Engineered Foods [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1675448 - 07/01/03 12:22 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Actually, jackass, I help AIDS patients from Uganda. I work with samples that, frankly, everyone else with whom I work are too damn scared to work with because god knows what the hell are in them. I put my life at risk every fucking day to help people who are already going to die, just so their death might not be so bad (how would you like to die from dehydration from chronic diarrhea,) and maybe we will possibly find a cure for some of those diseases affecting those people, and maybe even AIDS, itself (our research projects are based on the diseases that affect immunocomprimised patients, but I work with a couple different very prestigious universities (one is ivy league) and many different projects that have to do with AIDS.) What the fuck do you do to help the world?

Oh, and I have been to third world countries mind you, but I don't think this discussion is worth pursuing; unless it takes a 180 degree turn. I'm sure you're a cool person, and this is the internet; a fact that we all have to take into account.

BTW -- atomikfunksoldier -- if you don't believe me, feel free to PM me and you can email me at the university where I work. I think you'd be suprised.

Oh, and Iglou -- I do see your point, but PCB's have nothing to do with GM foods. The waste products from the facilities needed to genetically modify plants are inconsequential. I should know; I do similar things for a living.

--
Micro


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: Genetically Engineered Foods [Re: micro]
    #1675873 - 07/01/03 03:36 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

-great, you demonstrated your interest in helping people, now you should apply that experience to the massive failure, and all the un-needed damage it has caused in India.

uganda eh? thats awesome! I used to work in an infra-structure development project in Zimbabwe.


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InvisibleAlien
Galactic Shaman

Registered: 11/14/99
Posts: 1,860
Loc: Jupiter's Moon
Post deleted by Administrator [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1676375 - 07/01/03 10:02 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)



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-Alien :cool:

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OfflineMetaShroom
菌类
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Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 1,462
Loc: East Anglia UK
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Re: Genetically Engineered Foods [Re: Alien]
    #1676718 - 07/01/03 01:10 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

World hunger is a global economic issue, and has nothing to do with lack of sufficient agricultural technology. The GM companies have no interest in the nutritional health of people in developing countries, and are only seeking to create new markets in which the farmers are beholden to them for obtaining yearly seedstock and agrochemicals.


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Offlinecrazycanadian
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Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 312
Loc: infront of a monitor
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Re: Genetically Engineered Foods [Re: MetaShroom]
    #1677449 - 07/01/03 06:50 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I like eating watermellons without seeds. I also like oranges without seeds.


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InvisibleWyrdless
Stranger
Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 15
GM Soy yield in brazil [Re: crazycanadian]
    #1677741 - 07/01/03 08:56 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

This is a quote from a corporate watchdog newsgroup concerning the production of soy in Brazil due to GM use.
They doubled their yield in 5 years

http://www.corpwatch.org/news/PND.jsp?articleid=6368


The Agriculture Ministry's secretary of production and marketing, Linneu Lima, says transgenic crops cuts production costs by 40 percent and that authorizing their cultivation in Brazil would allow the country to double its grain output in five years, reaching 200 million tons annually.



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Invisibleiglou
enthusiast
Registered: 03/08/02
Posts: 295
Re: GM Soy yield in brazil [Re: Wyrdless]
    #1683204 - 07/03/03 10:06 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Here's another link:

http://www.corpwatch.org/issues/PID.jsp?articleid=7030


"The Case Against Agricultural Biotechnology: Why Are Transgenic Crops Incompatible With Sustainable Agriculture In The Third World?"


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InvisibleWyrdless
Stranger
Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 15
Re: GM Soy yield in brazil [Re: iglou]
    #1683364 - 07/03/03 10:52 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I did not think the article was very good. this is why

"Transgenic crops can produce environmental toxins that move through the food chain"

- No evidence at all. Ever.

"In 1999 enough grain was produced globally to feed a population of eight billion people (six billion inhabit the planet in 2000), had it been evenly distributed or not fed to animals"

"1986 Haiti imported just 7,000 tons of rice, the majority consumed was grown in the island. After opening its economy to the world, cheaper rice immediately flooded in from the USA where the rice industry is subsidised."

"The real causes of hunger are poverty, inequality, and lack of access to food and land. Too many people are too poor"

- What does this have to do with biotechnology? This is a rant aganist globalization. This publication is anti-biotechnology NO MATTER WHAT thats why I used it (I am pro biotech). It wouldn't matter if biotechnology was able to desalinize water using sunlight, they would still hate it, wail and nash their teeth.

"Biotechnology develops single-gene solutions for problems that derive from ecologically unstable monoculture systems designed on industrial models of efficiency"

-This is an illegal agriculture system in America. In America farmers are required BY LAW to plant many different species. That is a Food Secuirty law. A farmer must plant many and varied species to prevent cataclysmic crop failure.

Lets go to this Food Security idea. When you go to the grocery store do you notice how cheap everything is? A can of tuna is 69 cents and a loaf of bread is a dollar. The reason why is because the government pays farmers to farm and some not to. Agriculture gets HUGE amounts of government money. WHY? Because Americans like to always have food. Can you imagine if you went to the local store and they said "no milk today wait till tomorow". It will never happen because of subsidies.

The result of this is that it makes our food much cheaper on a global market. Other peoples foods are devalued and hence not worth anything other than to eat. You can't get enough money to, say ... buy cars and nice chairs form the catalogs. Most third world countries have agrarian economies, they use agriculture to produce money.

Since the whole country produces mainly food and food isn't worth much, they are poor and its all because you pay only 69 cents a can for tuna.

If you want to complain about food security in thrid world nations lets talk about that. But don't confuse biotechnology with agriculture. transgeneic animals have the potential to supply the whole world with drugs and substances like insulin, clotting factors, and interlukin 5. Transgenic plants and animals have great potential. It won't save the world, but it will benefit the world.


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: GM Soy yield in brazil [Re: Wyrdless]
    #1684248 - 07/03/03 04:57 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

wyrdless - What does this have to do with biotechnology? This is a rant aganist globalization. This publication is anti-biotechnology NO MATTER WHAT thats why I used it (I am pro biotech).

but thats just the problem, biotech and profit-orientated trans-nationals are synonymous right now. if biotech was being adminsitered by NPOs, then it wouldnt be such a failure in so many countries.


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InvisibleWyrdless
Stranger
Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 15
Re: GM Soy yield in brazil [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1684367 - 07/03/03 05:39 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Biotechnology is not synonymous with big business. True big business is needed to produce the precision components needed for the progression of this technology, but the same holds true for the car you drive to work everyday.

Biotechnology is driven by the same means every science is driven by grants from universities, business, government and private donors. There are plenty of small biotechnology companies. They make a wide array of products like skin for skin grafts (that's right they make it). My boss works on finding the B cell progenitor lines and early stage differentiation, she needs biotechnology to do this in the form of knockout mice, PCR and designer retrovirus production.

The facts are that you, and by you I mean every American's life expectancy, will increase by 5 years because of biotechnology. There are over 30 stage three drugs coming out in the next few years. Some of these drugs have the potential to completely eliminate some types of cancer.

You simply can't damn an entire arm of science just because some people are using it to make money. Biotechnology by itself is just a tool; it is the hand that wields it that can either create or destroy.

Biotechnology is tangent to the problem of the military-industrial complex, GNP gaps and neocolonialism. Those problems were caused by having different systems. America uses an excellent system where everyone gets a chance if they work hard. Other countries don't have this system; they use patronage and nepotism. In America people can do say and act how they want, also there ideas are patentable so that if you DO build a better mousetrap; no one can rip off your idea. In other countries they have corruption where public officials take bribes and often work with criminal entities.

The American system has made us rich by allowing individuals to be free. Other countries can't allow this (not enough police) or won't (police state). Most countries, which are very poor, fall into one of these categories, like the Congo, North Korea and Afghanistan. Free countries tend to be rich like Britain, Poland and Hong Kong (not a country but a free area in the middle of repression).

So you see, if you want to save the world from all the big bad bogie men like the International criminal gangs, Multinational corporations and the world government (IMF, world bank, and others).
You have to have strong democracies everywhere in the world.


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
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Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: GM Soy yield in brazil [Re: Wyrdless]
    #1684433 - 07/03/03 06:00 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

okay, let me re-iderate, the failings of bio-tech are synonymous with big-bussiness.

"The American system has made us rich by allowing individuals to be free."

um.....okay, Ill chalk that one under dogma. If the american system is rich because of freedom, then why does it profit so much from the repression of freedom in other countries?, repression that was initiated by the american government.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,784
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Re: Genetically Engineered Foods [Re: Alien]
    #1684591 - 07/03/03 07:32 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I think they (GE foods) are a good idea, overall.

Yes, there are some potential downfalls. Some of them are even rather bad ones.

But the potential for increased food supply and better land usage in a shrinking world is far too great an opportunity to pass up, in my opinion.

Everything has it's risks, biotech is no different. If you don't take a few risks along the way, you won't get very far.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleWyrdless
Stranger
Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 15
Re: Genetically Engineered Foods [Re: trendal]
    #1685048 - 07/03/03 11:27 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I will take the failings to mean corporate profit taking in unregulated 3rd world market. This is similar to the rampant price gouging by Enron and other energy companies after California deregulation (remember the rolling blackouts).

These are NOT biotech failings. The round up ready maize is a bad idea I will grant that. Just because this was invented does not by any means damn the whole technology.

What about all the good things it has done?


Freedom does make you rich. Free minds reach farther, free voices communicate to closed minds and free souls reach for enlightenment.

The Chinese and Russians are far behind us in technology because they repress there people with a police state as it has been for many long millennia (at least in Russia's case, China had golden ages where the people where free and flourished. At that time they were most powerful). America was born at the time when humanism was at its peak and it has born that legacy. Then after 100 short years (by cultural standards) we became a super power (after WW2). We still are ahead because we are free and unified (the latter being the reason for our supremacy over Europe).

Prosperity follows freedom

We repressed Germany, Japan, and Russia. Those were good.
However American Foreign policy since its super power status we have used that power to defeat the Russian world takeover attempt. In the process we created global nets of alliances. These alliances like Nato, Seto, Norad, and OAS have cemented international bonds of unity. No war will occur between members of the alliances. This significantly lowers the number of possible wars.

The repression that now occurs is because the generation WW2 generation took apart the weapons they had built. The generation after that viewed politicians with contempt; slowly the number of voters declined. The X generation is mostly people who don't care or people who see the crisis and have radical ideas.

The truth is that we have inherited a battered ship of state. The constitution is in taters and greedy people have taken the helm. If The People (like in the constitution) don't wake up real soon then the courageous ship will turn into a prison galley


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OfflineSev
Astropath
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 1,426
Loc: NY
Last seen: 7 years, 8 days
Re: GM Soy yield in brazil [Re: Wyrdless]
    #1687777 - 07/05/03 12:10 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Wyrdless said:
"Transgenic crops can produce environmental toxins that move through the food chain"

- No evidence at all. Ever.





Uh, actually, there were major die-offs in monarch butterfly flights, suspected to have been caused by gengineered corn pollen, or something like that. I can't remember the article but it was going around for a while.

...I also don't know if the toxins would have moved through the food chain, but it's plausable.


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"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.


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Invisiblemicro
bunbun has a gungun
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Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
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Re: GM Soy yield in brazil [Re: Sev]
    #1689113 - 07/06/03 12:52 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

The monarch butterfly scenario is irrelevant to people and animals of a "higher order;" the butterfly's stomach is alkaline and the toxin only works on things with an alkaline stomach, such as a bug. I believe Wyrdless explained the whole BT toxin thing above.

Just my opinion.

--
Micro


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(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


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