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OfflineTraveller
enthusiast
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 309
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
flashbacks
    #414378 - 10/05/01 02:00 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

ok i've heard that people occasionally have acid flashbacks, and that once you've taken some acid there's no time limit...so you could have one any time any place in the rest of your life.

now as far as i know i haven't had any, but i've had some crazy experiences in meditation - and i haven't even begun to get into the really deep stuff yet...so i figure if anything's going to bring this stuff back up to the top of my mind it's meditation right? so maybe a couple of those full on meditation trips were flashbacks?

anyway flashback stories people? ever had one? walking down the street, having dinner with your parents, driving, during sex, do they happen and do you have any idea why or when?



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Anonymous

Re: flashbacks [Re: Traveller]
    #414448 - 10/05/01 03:58 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

My first one happened while I was taking a shit. I was looking at the toilet paper roll, and everything shifted to a yellowish tint, and the roll of toilet paper looked like it was slowly unrolling...

Kinda strange.

Time is not the killer... we are the killers of time.
mp3.com/spin-smk
mp3.com/smack
mp3.com/smk
mp3.com/suspicion37


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Anonymous

Re: flashbacks [Re: Traveller]
    #414449 - 10/05/01 04:02 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

And another time, I was sitting down outside these apartments. It was dark and there was a light behind me...

So anyway, I'm sitting down and I'll be damned if my shadow didn't stand up! I had to stand up too just to make everything feel right again.

Time is not the killer... we are the killers of time.
mp3.com/spin-smk
mp3.com/smack
mp3.com/smk
mp3.com/suspicion37


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OfflineTimeleech
addict
Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 590
Loc: Norway
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: flashbacks [Re: Traveller]
    #414602 - 10/05/01 08:32 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

The closest thing I have ever had to a flashback is seing things in the corner of my eyes. That's pretty normal, but sometimes these things, shadowlike figures, move into the center of my fov. And sometimes I can stare at a man for 30 sec untill I realize it's not a man, but a tree.

Walum-Nitul sechu mal torval. Tiischal meddur ankat.


--------------------
--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 10,185
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: flashbacks [Re: Traveller]
    #414645 - 10/05/01 10:23 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Ask Dr. Shulgin Online

ARCHIVE: March 1, 2001

Lingering LSD & "Flashbacks"

Dear Dr. Shulgin:

I have heard that LSD never leaves your body, and
can stay in your brain for many years? Is this true,
and is this what causes the so called ?flashbacks??
Thanks!
-- B & Rhys

Dear B & Rhys:

The myth of the ?lingering molecule? of LSD was
given support by the Drug Enforcement
Administration at a two day meeting in San
Francisco, in late 1991. The DEA invited some 200
participants from law enforcement groups (both
domestic and foreign) to share information
concerning LSD. The law enforcement agents were
told that not only was the storage location known
(the frontal lobes of the brain) but also the length of
time it stayed there (up to twenty years).

?The evidence is all about us,? they were told. ?The
indiscriminate use of LSD in the Summer of Love (in
the 1960s) has led directly, through the re-release
of these hidden-away molecules and the resulting
flashbacks, to the hordes of the homeless, the
psychotic, and the disenfranchised here on the
streets of San Francisco.?

The flashback phenomenon with LSD is rare but
real. An auditory or visual clue can bring back a
passing memory of an earlier experience. The
residue of any tangible quantity of the chemical
itself, in the brain or blood of the user after 24
hours, is, however, total nonsense.

-- Dr. Shulgin




--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Anonymous

Re: flashbacks [Re: Anonymous]
    #414751 - 10/05/01 12:52 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I have had one experience...
A few years ago I was meeting with my probation officer, being scolded about not going to school enough. As I was sitting there the chair started to move up and down, and the walls starting stretching and flexing and such. I hadn't taken any drugs in over a month, so this caught me off guard. I always just figured it was an acid flashback or something, but who knows.



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InvisibleIshmael
enthusiast

Registered: 10/29/99
Posts: 224
Re: flashbacks [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #414849 - 10/05/01 02:31 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

A friend of mine who is an ethnobotanist had the notion that perhaps LSD flashbacks are nothing more than neural channel relapse.

That probably doesn't make too much sense to a lot of you, but let me give an example. People who smoke pot too much are notorious for having 'short term memory loss' or just 'memory loss' in general, but what they actually seem to have is 'chemically dependent memory retention'. The memories /of/ their experiences while high are difficult to access while sober, but /not/ while high. (A high-school friend of mine called this the Memory Wormhole effect, where you suddenly remember an experience while high that related to some past high experience that you could not recollect while sober). The experiences had while on the chemical (LSD, THC ect ect) /store/ the memory within the context of the brain at that moment. The pot-smoking friend of mine had memories that were stored /through/ THC infused neurons; part of the context was THC. The THC became an essential part of the neural network in association to those experiences had while high. WIthout the THC, the neural network was not capable to accessing those memories (it was in the sense of the memories in question, incomplete) - the context was not re-established. But when THC was re-introduced, the special network was resestablished and the memories were accessable.

Now the context of LSD is /similar/. My friend's theory states that it wouldn't be neccesary for LSD to linger in the body to set off these 'flashbacks', all LSD would have to do is be a traumatic experience; which it is. For those of you who havn't had the opportunity in your lives to experience any sort of trauma, what occurs during 'trauma' is that the brain seems to become super absorbant. Ever detail of the situation is recorded in memory at superior fidelity - which is why victims of trauma report having terrible /flashbacks/ so often. Vietnam veterans often report having these sorts of experiences, as do people who lived through fires, earthquakes, tornados, bear attacks...ect ect. What seems to be occuring is that he brain is super-integrating these memories into itself. That because of the nature of the event and its relative danger it is neccesary for the person to /always be able/ to access these memories so that the situation can be avoided again and the person can avoid the potential for greatest harm. But more often, these memories are /so/ vivid that they become debilitating. These memories seem to be /broad/ in that it only takes a small associated impulse to set them off, or force them into the forefront of mental activity (Think of a Vietnam veteran hearing a helicopter going over and having a flashback). In the same manner, a LSD 'trauma' could easily be brought back into the forefront of mental activity by an equally innocious stimulus. A certain color, a certain sound, a certain feeling. Its the variance of the LSD experience, the way that it is so subjective, that keeps one from being able to quantify just what sorts of stimulus cause the flashback to occur. What essentially is happening is that the LSD (do not take this literally, but rather metaphorically) grooves a channel into your brain that takes a long time to be filled. While the channel still exists, all it takes is the right sort of stimulus to open up the floodgate and cause the experience to reoccur. Your neural network relapses into the state it was in during your orginal LSD experience (the berevity is due to there being not enough /reinforcing/ chemicals within the brain to potentiate a full-blown 12 hour trip). Again, with this theory, the more you trip (and thus, the more times you force your neural network into the pychedelic-state) the 'deeper' the channel will be, and the more likely it is for the state to become a /perminant/ adjunct onto your 'sober' life. This might also explain why some people can feel like they are unable to 'get anything more' from the LSD experience - they've fully integrated the state into their 'sober' mind and thus, injesting the chemical doesn't really produce that significant of a change in their sober consciousness (mental immunity). It seems to be those who can't integrate the experience that usually have the worst time with LSD and flashbacks in general (a pychotic split is when you percieve within yourself conflicting aspects that you cannot reconcile. This inability [if left unchecked long enough, or if reinforced consistantly] leads to mental fragmentation and eventually breakdown. In this context, an un-integrated LSD experience would have the same potential of causing a pychotic split from reality as surviving the hell of Vietnam).

Anyway, I thought my friend (the ethnobotanist) had an interesting idea - enough so that I would share it with you.

Ish



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Anonymous

Re: flashbacks [Re: Ishmael]
    #414885 - 10/05/01 03:16 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

That's a good theory, I like it. Thanks for sharing Ishmael.



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OfflineTimeleech
addict
Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 590
Loc: Norway
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: flashbacks [Re: Ishmael]
    #414928 - 10/05/01 04:19 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

There are theories about holographic memory, that would explain why you remember trips while tripping, and not as easily while sober. I can explain this briefly with a parallell of current reesearch in holographic (computer)memory.

You have this square crystal, and let a laser shine on it. This is the "base" laser. Then, when you want to store something in the crystal, you direct another laser at the crystal, from a different angle. The interference-pattern from the lightwaves of these lasers are stored in the crystal.
You may now rotate the crystal a fraction of a degree to store another, say, image.

Your brain (or possibly your whole body) acts as a holographic memorymodule in this case. When the you do drugs the base laser is replaced by one with a different frequency, still enabling you to remember parts of an experience, but making the image a bit fuzzy.

This is my improvised take on the remembering-stuff-while-high thing
Oh, And I have noticed that everytime I take acid, when it just starts to get flowing in yer brain, i always think that we have no idea what tripping is like when sober, we are simply not able to remember the full scope of it. The whole memory of tripping gets a bit fuzzy... The base laser being replaced and all :)

Hope this was intelligible
And you might want to do some research yorselves on this theory, can't remember any nore details at the time.

Walum-Nitul sechu mal torval. Tiischal meddur ankat.


--------------------
--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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OfflineTraveller
enthusiast
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 309
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: flashbacks [Re: Ishmael]
    #415255 - 10/05/01 11:49 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

awesome.

this place is great! i've been looking forward to logging on here almost every day for two weeks now...

anyway thanks ishmael and cosmic joke, and whoever that was with the holographic memory thing yeah you did make sense....

now ishmael what you're saying there about trauma, that's what DJ described to young carlos as "intensity", for obvious reasons, and how states of heightened awareness were ideal for learning because during periods of intensity we are capable of absorbing huge amounts of information. and that the fact that we can't remember these states in our normal awareness (we can usually remember that we had these experiences, but not the experiences themselves) is a GOOD thing, because eventually we will start to remember, putting together the "totality of ourselves". ok did that make sense? we absorb the information and then forget it but it's in there right? and eventually if we continue with practices that open up the usually inaccessible areas of our minds and memories these memories become available. also like you say even though we think we can't remember them our BODIES remember perfectly, so any time we are placed into a similar situation of danger our trauma or intensity or tripping our bodies will react accordingly without the interference of our conscious mind.

there i think i've said it, following me here? ok so now i have a question:

what are some methods people know of bringing on these states of "intensity" without taking drugs? we don't all have a nagual to whack our assemblage points into heightened awareness, and chemicals are all very well but does anyone have any good methods? quick and easy would be excellent.

i have a few that i'm working on:

vipassana meditation (www.dhamma.org!!) is amazing for this, i have definately entered incredible states of intensity comparable to strong acid or mushroom trips --- during ten day retreats where i didn't speak and did nothing but meditate in the forests in the blue mountains in australia. not exactly normal conditions but hopefully if i keep practicing regularly i'll be able to reach these states more and more easily.

daoist standing chi kung as taught by many tai chi schools, the basic foundation for all the chinese "internal" martial arts schools: standing (with correct posture, i can't describe this in words unfortunately) gripping the ground with the feet, listening intently eyes open focusing on the peripheral RELAXED breathing slowly into the dantien (body center) "connecting with heaven" through the crown of the head. this has done it for me once or twice, again the more i practice the deeper it gets and the more intense the experience....

also CLIMBING!! climbing cliffs without ropes (not exactly recommended) gives that necessary mix of fear and adrenaline...the knowledge that you can not fuck up...can also bring about states of heightened sensory awareness.

SO. there's a few from me, i really believe these states are a key to LEARNING and development...i'm having difficulty putting this sentence together, something to do with potential and needing to be tested beyond comfortable levels...ok i think i should take a break and have some lunch.

LOVE!



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InvisibleKid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 2,365
Re: flashbacks [Re: Ishmael]
    #415413 - 10/06/01 03:13 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Doesn't necessarily have to be "traumatic." It's also like a state dependent learning kinda thing.

To illustrate something I think of as being similar: Usually during the day I can't remember the dreams I had the previous night before whatsoever. However, when I go to be at night, I can remember the dreams I had the night before, and even many nights before that. They come without any effort, whereas during the day I struggle hard as I can and don't remember anything.

I see a flashback as the same sort of thing. There's some kind of cue, and then your perceptual systems "remember" how to see that way.

I haven't been getting them as much recently. I used to see strobe lights on the walls in darkness, which was pretty crazy. I still get things moving and melting in the dark though (not nearly as strongly as it used to be; it used to kinda bother me).



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OfflineSlimly007
newbie

Registered: 11/08/00
Posts: 39
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
Re: flashbacks [Re: Traveller]
    #415510 - 10/06/01 05:27 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

lets say i had a bad acid trip, will my flashback, if i ever have one be a good flash back or a bad flashback? and what is the most common flashback, mind fuck or visual? or a buzzing feeling. the only flashback i had was like a week after dosing 2 hits, more like a body high/uncomfortable/trapped feeling



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OfflineTraveller
enthusiast
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 309
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: flashbacks [Re: Slimly007]
    #415560 - 10/06/01 07:28 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

well whether you have a good trip or not is not dependant upon "the trip" but upon you, so whether you perceive the flashback as being good or bad will surely also depend only upon yourself.



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Offlinegnrm23
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Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 6,481
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 2 months, 27 days
Re: flashbacks [Re: Traveller]
    #415905 - 10/06/01 04:56 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

charles tart has done some research on state-specific knowledge...
the sufis are known for teaching "state-specific sciences"...
grof's holotropic breathwork...
masters & houston's _mind games_ is a classic in "hypnoid" ASCs...
mmm, later...

old enough to know better
not old enough to care


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineTraveller
enthusiast
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 309
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: flashbacks [Re: gnrm23]
    #420319 - 10/10/01 01:30 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

hey!! sorry i've been off in the beautiful mountains of Nagano hanging out with japanese hippies and rastafarians, stayed at two amazing houses that these guys have built themselves out of local trees...also making amazing djembes and all sorts of cool stuff. japan might seem fucked on the surface in so many ways but wow i've been blown away recently going to wonderful free music festivals in the mountains, camping, amazing musicians, old japanese folks with dreadlocks down to their knees playing some of the funkiest shit i've ever heard!!

looks to me like everywhere in the world there are going to be groups of loving, nature loving, free thinking music playing HAPPY people living good good lives!!!

SO getting back to the topic at hand tell me more about charles tart and please tell me about sufi state specific sciences and grof's holotropic breathwork!!!!!!



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OfflineGlitterbaby
journeyman
Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 79
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: flashbacks [Re: Ishmael]
    #421784 - 10/11/01 11:23 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

After reading your post, i got a clue about what happend to me some days ago.

I went on to um... drug-related parties wthin 8 days ( hard for me ) and another "major" experiment with 6g of MG seeds, which
are working for me nearly the same way then E's do.
When the Mg's took full effect i remembered something from the last party i didn't remember yet.
I was remembering walking around in somewhat mindblanked state, just moving through the raving crowd for around an half hour. That came to me right on the peak of my "higher than normal" MG-dose.
If that's what flashbacks are about i'm not that much scared.
But i'll try pictures the next days and will tell anyone if i receive any flashbacks 8)

FAIR TRIPPING



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