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Invisiblesherm
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learn C before C++.......or not?
    #4136539 - 05/05/05 08:33 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I want to get into programing
i was talking to my teacher about learning a language
he said to learn C just enough to understand it before I start on C++
would you agree with this?
Got any interesting programing resources?

I am going to teach myself, I would like to get a good book.
Have any recomendations?

any advice?

thanks


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: learn C before C++.......or not? [Re: sherm]
    #4136590 - 05/05/05 09:06 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I strongly disagree with that idea. Although C++ is an extension to C, the complexities involved with the two make both very difficult to learn. The programming methodology used between objective programming (C++) and functional programming (C) is also very different. When you mix the two up as suggested, you are going to cause a lot of unneeded confusion both at the language semantics level and at the programming methodology level.

Have you ever programmed in any language? If so, then the above suggestion isn't as bad as I am making it out to be though I still wouldn't recommend learning that way.

If you haven't ever programmed, then C and C++ are not the languages to be using to learn. Both languages are loosly typed, which means that the language wont protect you from making most mistakes. Think of C/C++ as a gun without a safety mechanism on the trigger... sure you can shoot fast, but you can also shoot yourself in the foot by accident much easier too.

If you want to learn functional programming, I would recommend starting with a strongly typed language such as Pascal. Once you learn the basics of programming, then move on to C.

If you want to learn objective programming, I would recommend starting with a strongly typed language such as Java. Actually, I think Java is a great learning language and this would be my recommendation as a starting point. The Java language is very close to both C and C++. The semantics of the language follow C, but the language is based upon a very strong object model rather than a functional model. Java will not really prepare you for the semantics of C++, but it will teach you objective programming, which is needed to understand how to program in C++. Java is also strongly typed, so you have a much harder time making mistakes than you would in C or C++.

Visit http://java.sun.com/ and look to the left side of the page. A little over half way down there are links to all kinds of online learning resources. The language is free to download and runs under most popular operating systems. There are tons of code examples, tutorials, and books on the subject as well.


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InvisibleMushie_Man
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Re: learn C before C++.......or not? [Re: Seuss]
    #4136726 - 05/05/05 10:15 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Visual Basic is an easy language to get you on the programming route .. Not much like C/C++ but it's quick to learn the basics, so it wont be a waste of time, it will help you get into the programming structure, such as how to use modules, scripts etc.. i find it more fun than C/C++. ALOT quicker to put program's together (hence "VISUAL" basic, its all drag and drop, then just add the code)

If your going to program, this is the best site to learn from:
http://www.planet-source-code.com/

Good Luck  :thumbup:

Peace,
Mushie Man  :mushroom2:


--------------------
Ecstacy got me standing next to you
Getting sentimental as fuck spillin' guts to you
We just met
But I think I'm in love with you
But you're on it too
So you tell me you love me too
Wake up in the morning like "yo, what the fuck we do?"


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InvisibleSuffer
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Re: learn C before C++.......or not? [Re: Mushie_Man]
    #4136756 - 05/05/05 10:28 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I dont recomend learning visual basic... I use VB at school quite a bit. Its unpredictable... The software (vb studio) encourages poor coding practice (autocomplete syntax is nice and all, but you can also leave important things out and it assumes for you... thats bad IMHO). Also, VB is a MS ONLY language... thats kinda crappy no? Id recomend learning python or c++... or even VB if your so inclined, but the important thing to remember is they are all the same general concept, just the syntax is different. Start easy and work your way up... and PRACTICE GOOD SYNTAX! You will only be saving yourself 10000000000 headaches in the future.


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Invisiblesherm
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Re: learn C before C++.......or not? [Re: Suffer]
    #4136817 - 05/05/05 10:50 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

i was cheking out perl and python
would you suggest one over the other?


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shroomery.
not even once.



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OfflineSeussA
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Re: learn C before C++.......or not? [Re: sherm]
    #4137045 - 05/05/05 12:05 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

> I dont recomend learning visual basic...

Nor do I. Horrid horrid language. Everything Suffer said and more.

> i was cheking out perl and python

I would learn python over perl. I call perl a "write once read never" language. In other words, it is great for getting things done, but if you ever have to maintain perl code you might as well give up. The language is really a mix of several differnt unix tools smashed together into a language. Extremly powerful, extremly cryptic, a zillion different ways to do the same thing, etc.

I haven't used python that much, but from what I have seen, the language is sound. It isn't used that much, but that doesn't mean that it isn't good... but it does mean you will have a harder time learning it because there will be fewer people that you can ask for help.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: learn C before C++.......or not? [Re: Seuss]
    #4138696 - 05/05/05 06:42 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

you can ask any of the gentoo folk about python. i believe their portage system was written in it. python also has a great tutorial on their site. i think one of the first things it teaches you is how to program the fibonichi forumla.

i believe if it were to write a program, i might approach it from the same point of view that i approached learning a musical instrument. i would learn the fundamentals, then decide on a song to learn and learn it. in learning that song i amassed more tools to build upon. i bet the same approach would work in coding. after all, i look at it as an art form unto itself.


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No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: learn C before C++.......or not? [Re: sherm]
    #4139695 - 05/05/05 11:03 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah I also would recommend you stay away from the BASIC and VisualBASIC languages.

BASIC was really just that, a basic language. It will teach you a LOT of bad coding skills, though, things you will have to unlearn to really learn a good language like Java or C/C++. VisualBASIC is just a shittier version of BASIC in my opinion. Quick and simple for making dialogues and such in Windows...but absolutely useless for any real coding needs. It's slow, and requires proprietary Microsoft files to run on any machine.

When I learned programming I dove straight into C and had no problems at all. I would try to tackle Java though before you move to C++, as Java is a much better language for learning object-oriented models than C++ is. For most applications I would use C++ over Java though, given the choice, as C++ tends to run faster (no virtual machine to worry about).


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineHugh_Jass
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Re: learn C before C++.......or not? [Re: trendal]
    #4143442 - 05/06/05 07:27 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Another vote for Java here.

We're tought Visual Basic and Java on our course at college and althought VB is a lot easier and immediate, its more like a toy I dont think it teaches you very much.

I find Java a lot more enjoyable and have started to get a good grip on the syntax. Im findind the concepts of objects a little tricky tho but we havent really got that far on yet.


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InvisibleBoom
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Re: learn C before C++.......or not? [Re: sherm]
    #4144178 - 05/06/05 11:23 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

VB does make some nice looking executables though. :shrug:

I don't recommend assembly.  That was the worst (a bit interesting, however) language I've ever had to deal with.  God I hated that course.

C++ is a real nice way to learn about programming in my opinion.  I mean, you can do the same thing in any language (kinda), but the idea behind programming is to figure out good, logical algorithms.  C is a nice, straight-forward way to learn the basics of program design


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Offlineummikko
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Re: learn C before C++.......or not? [Re: sherm]
    #4146491 - 05/07/05 03:04 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I agree with Seuss 100%, start with Java. Free, excellent online tutorials make it easy to teach yourself, good starting point for C/C++.

I can't recommend a Java book myself, but if you want to buy a C++ book later on I suggest Bjarne Stroustrup: The C++ Programming Language


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"All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison and a remedy." -Paracelsius


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Invisibledjfrog
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Re: learn C before C++.......or not? [Re: sherm]
    #4149332 - 05/08/05 05:52 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Go to the bookstore and grab whatever interests you in the computer languages section.  You'll need to learn a couple languages before you can use any one effectively.  :smile:  I do recommend just looking for a book on a topic that interets you (graphics, networking, etc) in the computer languages section.  This way you learn some language, but you also learn some functionality.

If you have any specific questions on C/C++, I can probably help.  If there is a specific sort of software you want to write, I might suggest a book.  I'd also suggest searching amazon for topics of interest like "game programming" then learning whatever language is used for the subject.  Maybe get two books, one for the language and one for the subject.


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Invisibletak
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Re: learn C before C++.......or not? [Re: djfrog]
    #4152664 - 05/09/05 09:50 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

without reading too much of the posts. let me put in my advise.

never learn visual basic. ever.
it will teach you to code wrong, and while 99% of languages use simular syntax, basic does not. it will fuck you in the long run.

and i would just pick up a book for c++. while c++ is based off of c, its pretty specific to its own shit, whether it be basic syntax, or extreme stuff. If c++ is what you want to code, learn that. then when you learn c, you will already know most of it. dont get the 2 confused though.


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Invisiblemantis
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Re: learn C before C++.......or not? [Re: sherm]
    #4159361 - 05/10/05 10:19 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Take a look at some of my C++ programs... they're oh so basic :lol:

http://home.comcast.net/~texture/cplusplus.html


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Invisibledjfrog
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Re: learn C before C++.......or not? [Re: mantis]
    #4159949 - 05/11/05 12:58 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

1 line of comments for every 5 line of code, you learn fast grasshoppah.

Hah though I read the "TODO" list of connect four and cracked up. I'm glad you're worried about nanoseconds of runtime in a calculation that will probably never consume a second of the universe. It means you're going to do well.


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Invisibletak
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Re: learn C before C++.......or not? [Re: djfrog]
    #4166867 - 05/12/05 04:42 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

on the note of comments!

comments are your best friend, learn to use them. Write your code as if you were going to have someone else look at it and have to use it. Not only will explaining what everything does help you if you take a break, and need to go back and have a look..

but its kinda like vocabulary class in grade school. You have to write the defenitions 5 times, and suddenly you remember them. Comments will do this for you, allowing you to break it all down in your head before you move on.


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The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.


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