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Offlinebarfightlard
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Your opinions on Homeopathy?
    #4028971 - 04/08/05 12:35 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Science hasn't been able to prove how these remedies work, so right away many dismiss it as fake, just a placebo, ect. I just found it myself and think its a very intresting way of healing. Even if it is just a placebo it works on some level hah.

Just want to hear your thoughts on it.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: barfightlard]
    #4029041 - 04/08/05 12:56 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

For some, it does work. But I believe it's mostly due to the well-documented "Placebo Effect". But I don't mean to denigrate it. On the contrary, it can have a real positive and observable effect, provided the patient really believes it will help him/her....


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: Le_Canard]
    #4029070 - 04/08/05 01:06 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I had no belief prior that it would or wouldn't help me, I was just open to a new form of healing. I didn't know what heomeopathy was at all untill I talked to this guy. I had no idea of how fast this stuff would take to work, or whatever. After taking each remedy sepretly he told me to pay attention to my body and focus on changes. Maybe him telling me that made me create these things, but maybe they didn't. I don't want to deny possibilites here. But, I could feel things happening to me, such as vibrations and tingling sensatons in different areas of my body almost instantly. It was pretty cool.

I just started it tonite, so I have no idea if it will actually help. But so far it seems a hell of alot better than SSRI's and all that other mind control.

btw the one remedy is derived from peyote, thought that was intresting.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


Edited by bellylard (04/08/05 01:12 AM)


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: barfightlard]
    #4029119 - 04/08/05 01:17 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Just my opinion, of course. I'll be the first to admit there's a lot of things I don't know, so who knows? Hope it works for you, and keep us posted. :laugh:


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OfflineMobius_Strip
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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: barfightlard]
    #4029285 - 04/08/05 02:24 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I'm a firm beliver in the power of placebo but I think there is more to homeopathy than placebo. I've been taking a homepathic remedy for heart burn for a few years and it works better than any prescription or OTC remedy I've tried, with no side effects and no dependency. I was very skeptical at first because I've never actually had a homeopathic remedy work for me in the past. I assumed it would be the same for this one. Much to my surprise, it worked really well. I have a friend who went to a naturopathic college and she tells me that homeopaths have a long row to hoe. Apparently they have to memorize thousands of case histories in order to be good at it. Most doctors take a correspondance course for homeopathy and this isn't enough. The guy I went to attended a college of homeopathy in Europe for several years. From what I understand about it it's a sort of a "hair of the dog that bit you" concept. Homeopathy works in reverse. When you have an ailment you take a remedy that in large doses would actually cause the symptoms you're trying to eliminate. However, here's the kicker, the active constituent is at such a low dose that it is incapable of causing those symptoms (it works in reverse). A 30x remedy means that the active constituent is more diluted than, say, a 6x. The more diluted it is the deeper it works on an "energetic level". The higher dilutions are generally used for chronic conditions. Lower dilutions are used for acute conditions. You can buy a book called the "Materia Medica". It's pretty expensive but it contains thousands of symptoms and their homeopathic remedies. It can take a lot of searching and trying different remedies but when you find the right one it works miraculously! I've only had a few work for me but when they work, they really work.


--------------------
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky


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Offlinealsey
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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: barfightlard]
    #4029782 - 04/08/05 08:39 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

placebo. simple as that. homeopathic medicines are completely pharmacologically inactive; there have been many thorough experiments done to support this.

if you take some test subjects and give half homeopathic medicine, and half plain water, but tell them that they are all recieving homeopathic medicine, both halves will have the same average result. some will think the medicine/water did something, some will think it didn't. this has been shown many times in experiment. all experiments that have supported homeopathy as being something more than placebo have been shown to have been conducted incorrectly.

not that placebo isn't a valid treatment, but homeopathy doesn't do anything pharmacologically.


--------------------
"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana


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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: alsey]
    #4029946 - 04/08/05 09:43 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Power of placebo = the power of the human mind

We just don't get it yet.

I am a logical person, I use flower essenses. My logical brain is constantly telling how dumb it is, yet it works everytime for me.


And don't think your drugs are any better than a placebo. In tests drugs have to be only minutely more effective than placebo.


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: alsey]
    #4029971 - 04/08/05 09:57 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Please post links to these studies.



btw one thing I thought I would add. After taking these 3 remedies I began to feel a heavy feeling in my eyes and felt tired, and I was wide awake before hand. Then my mom told me my face wasn't tense anymore, according to her for the past 2 years or so my face looked tense(i had no idea of this). When I told the Dr. this he said that was because I was beggining to release whatever it was that was giving me problems the past couple years. I guess they both could have been lying to me?


I had no idea how these remedies would work or how long beforehand, but they did something. So if I was creating a placebo it seemed to be one that fit pretty well considering I didn't know what to expect.


Edited by bellylard (04/08/05 10:12 AM)


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Offlinealsey
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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: barfightlard]
    #4030058 - 04/08/05 10:46 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

here's the most thorough (IMO):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/homeopathy.shtml

i'll search for some others.

but anyway, the burden of proof is on the supporters of homeopathy. when you make a new medicine, you have to prove it before it becomes accepted in the medical community. the reason homeopathy isn't used in standard medicine is because no one's ever shown through a scientifically correct procedure that it actually does anything more than a placebo.


--------------------
"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana


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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: barfightlard]
    #4030180 - 04/08/05 11:34 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I don't know exactly about homeopathy... that is treating a disease with small amounts of something that would cause the symptoms in larger amounts right? I don't have much of an opinion on that, not enough experience. Like cures like? Well I don't know about that.. doesn't sound right to me. But I know the placebo effect is quite real.

However, I firmly believe and stand behind the powerful healing properties of non-harmful herbs. Flower essences too. I've been studying them for long enough, seen enouch people made better, and talked to enough doctors and nurses and naturopaths to know that herbal medicine works. The chinese have been doing it for 5,000 years, our modern medicine is just now catching on.

If you have a disease or malfunction of the body, it can most likely be corrected through a combination of the use of non-toxic herbs, a proper raw food diet, water treatment, massage, sunshine, fresh air, and exercise. Herbs have amazing healing and cleansing properties, and combined with a good diet, can improve quality of life dramatically.

If you would like some suggestions on some herbs (and food) you could possibly try for a week or two, just tell me what disease you are trying to treat and I will share with you what I know.


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: alsey]
    #4030259 - 04/08/05 12:11 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I realise that alsey. Tests are still underway I presume, and from what I've heard it hasn't got the full attention it could use. Non the less I think it's a great alternative to try. Even if it is just a placebo I hope it helps.


Shroomism: The idea behing Homeopathy is that if a substance produces symptoms in a healthy person, it can cure those same symptoms in a sick person. For example, a person suffering from hay fever might be given a remedy, Allium Cepa, prepared from an onion because for a healthy person chopping an onion usually causes watery eyes, burning and irritation.

There are over 3000 seperate remedies, each that can be used according to the persons physical, mental, and emotion state. The Dr gets right into the cause of your symptoms and trys to dig as deep as he can, so they can try and find the best remedy suited to your situation.

I went to this guy seeking help for depression(feeling empty, alone, hopeless,ect), anxiety, paranoia, and what some might call a drug induced psychosis.

He used many references to certain types of trees and different mystical things, I thought it was pretty intresting. I'll get more info on this next time I talk to him.

And ya shroomism i'd love some diet advice.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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OfflineMobius_Strip
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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: YidakiMan]
    #4030330 - 04/08/05 12:35 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

YidakiMan said:
Power of placebo = the power of the human mind

We just don't get it yet.

I am a logical person, I use flower essenses. My logical brain is constantly telling how dumb it is, yet it works everytime for me.


And don't think your drugs are any better than a placebo. In tests drugs have to be only minutely more effective than placebo.




We're on the same page man. I can't tell you how many times homeopathy didn't work for me. I fully expected this last one to be nothing but placebo and completely believed, in my gut, that it would not work at all. Surprise. Since then I've seen a few others in action. Most of the SSRIs on the market today are proving to be nothing more than placebo. That doesn't keep them off the market, does it? Doctors still hand the shit out like candy.

It's all about the pharmecuetical game. Pharmeceutical interests are one of the biggest players in the corporate game of divide, conquer rape and pillage. Do you think for a minute they wouldn't flub an experiment or fabricate results on purpose? We can't have anything natural and unpatentable competing with a new patent drug, what about their precious profits and shareholders? Natural remedies would cut into their business big time if allowed to go unchecked. Here's the skinny. Herbs and homeopathy are not patentable. You have a plant that grows in the ground and you dry it, cap it, and consume. It's not patentable, it's a product of nature. Along comes pharmaceuticals: Hmmm, if we patent the process by which we extract certain things from herbs and put it in a pill then we own it and can sell it at exhorbitant rates (Bang, the birth of patent medicines)! Meanwhile pill pushers tout the power of pills over herbs because that's what pharmeceutically funded medical schools tell them to say. Can you see how this pharma-cycle gets perpetuated?

Pharmaceutical corps are the most powerful business organizations in the US, they're bigger than oil. If you want real information on herbs then check out the German E monographs. Germany has been conducting herb studies a lot longer than the US and they have plenty of research in this area. Doctors in Germany actually have to learn about the efficacy of herbs in medical school.

You also have to watch where these empirical studies come from. Depending on who's conducting them they might not know what the fuck they're doing in the first place and if the reader isn't any more privy to the actual process of how to do it correctly then how will they know any different? So, then you add another naysayer into the mix via viral marketing. John Q. Public reads an article in TIME, or some medical journal, about how herbs don't work and they start telling all of their friends and so on. Before you know it there's a disinformation campaign of shock and awe on all things natural. So you read an empirical study on herb research and you see MD, PHD, bla,bla,bla next to their name and you assume the study is gospel. If you've ever scanned the articles available through MedLine you'll find contradicting evidence and studies all accross the line. Anyone can back up just about any idea with a plethora of empirical studies. Questions are, who conducted the study, how was it conducted and what was the efficacy of the product being tested?

What do you call a doctor who graduates last in their class?............"doctor". Do you think most doctors keep up with recent research? No, they don't. Not only is there too much to keep up with but it's also contradictory to boot. It's pretty common for someone to graduate from medical school, start a practice and rarely, if ever, keep up on the latest research. Your doctor could be practicing the same info he/she learned twenty years ago. They might have good bedside manner but you wouldn't want them as a doctor. Just like anyone else they want to sit on their fat ass and collect a fat check for minimal work. Go to your nearest medical college for health care. The doctors on staff actually conduct the reasearch so they have to keep up on what everyone else is doing and saying.

I don't trust any FDA, pharmeceutical agent or MD pill pusher to conduct a proper study on herbs, homeopathics, etc, when they're using herbs off the shelf that are full of fillers and contains no active compounds whatsoever. I had a friend who used to work in the herbal supplement industry. She tells me that most herbal companies don't even have a resident chemist on board to test for activity in their herbs. This means that most of what you find on the shelf is full of titanium dioxide, magnesium stearate, silica, saw dust, etc... and contain no active ingredients. Hell, my friend told me that sometimes what's in the bottle isn't actually what's labeled. Half the time it's just saw dust. So, no regulation of the herbal industry, great. But do we want the FDA regulating the industry, no, that's a whole new topic for discussion. It's very convenient to have no controls in place for herbal regulations from a certifying body of naturopaths, ethno botanists, chemists, whatever. Not to mention, if placebo heals then it IS medicine. Point blank. Irregardless of whether or not we are taking a pill or a drug and irregardless of how it works. It simply does work.


--------------------
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky


Edited by Mobius_Strip (04/08/05 12:43 PM)


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: Mobius_Strip]
    #4030397 - 04/08/05 12:57 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

There are means within our minds of healing ourselves without the need for any external help.

To name names, I had AFOAF work at Frontier Herbs and he reported the same thing you did: mislabeled herbs.


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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: barfightlard]
    #4030409 - 04/08/05 01:02 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

So you need something to treat depression/anxiety etc?

Well first.. diet.. eat raw fruits and vegetables as much as possible. Some veggies need to be cooked in order to eat.. in this case lightly steam them or pressure cook them, but do not overcook. If you boil veggies, use minimal water and drink the water they were cooked in. Do not peel potatos, carrots, cucumber, etc.. most of the vitamins are under the skin and with potatos removing the skin will leave you eating almost pure starch.. the skin is highly alkaline and will balance it out. Eat whole grains, oatmeal, bran, etc.. stay away from white flour, white flour products, and white sugar. Eat plenty of unroasted nuts of all kinds.. and beans. Basically you want to eat food in it's natural state as much as possible. Lots of raw fruits, lots of raw vegetables (but do not eat fruits and vegetables in the same meal.. does not mix well in the ol' stomach) You can get your fats and protein and essential acids from nuts and beans. Stay away from sodas, processed foods, greasy/fried foods, cane sugar, white flour products, etc.

As for herbs you may want to start with a general cleansing program to rid the body of toxins. For this I would recommend a combination of: Goldenseal, echinacea, dandelion root, slippery elm, comfrey, catnip, yellow dock, bayberry, fenugreek, and safflower. Try this for a week to cleanse the body (along with your real food diet which should also greatly help eliminate toxins). For best results, the colon must be clear so that the body can absorb the most nutrients, and constipation is the biggest problem with just about anyone so the high enema is highly recommended and is almost a specific if you are serious about cleansing the system.

You can try any of the following herbs (or a combination of them) to treat depression and anxiety: chamomile, gingko biloba, passion flower, golden seal, rhodiola, slippery elm. None of these herbs are harmful and all can be taken in combination with no ill effects.

In conjuction, a major part of treating depression and restoring equilibrium to the system, along with diet.. is sunshine, fresh air, and exercise. Make sure you get a good amount of this every day.. walking uphill is great as it forces one to breath deeply into the lungs. Just general, non-strenuous, outdoor exercise.

Also you must be sure to drink plenty of water every day. 8 glasses a day is just enough... more is even better.

One of the best all-around herbs in my opinion, is cayenne. It helps the body with a vast number of things, and is also a great seasoning. For one, it is one of the best general stimulants. It increases the circulation, strengthens the heart and the immune system. It increases the secretion of bile and thus aids in digestion. It is also very nutritional (high in vitamin C). It normalizes blood pressure (low and high). It will stop internal or external bleeding. When the body and its organs are properly stimulated, they will heal, cleanse, and begin to function normally. Cayenne can be used as a gargle for sore throats and pyorrhea. It is great for treating colds, fevers, coughs, cramps, etc. And in general tones and cleanses the system and is great for energy and circulation.

Then there is Golden Seal.. another amazing herb. it is one of the major healing herbs, considered one of the best infection fighters, and contains a natural antibiotic..considered by many as a cure-all. It lowers blood sugar and is a source of natural insulin. Stops internal and external bleeding, reduces swelling. Heals mucous membranes anywhere in the body, helps eliminate all catarrh conditions even when chronic in the intestines. Has been used for skin cancer, spinal nerves, and a list of things two pages long. Combined with cayenne it is an excellent treatment for the whole body and especially good for the heart.


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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: YidakiMan]
    #4030428 - 04/08/05 01:06 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Gaia, Oregons Wild Harvest, Ecclectic Institute, Herb Pharm, Pure Encapsulations and Thorne Research. I try to stick with those brands because I know they put out high quality products with excellent QC. There are a few others that are pretty good but they are only a last resort if I'm too broke to buy the real thing, Solaray is one of them. Most of the time I buy bulk herbs and cap them up myself. That way I can taste the herb and know how fresh it is.


--------------------
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky


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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: Mobius_Strip]
    #4030447 - 04/08/05 01:11 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Nature's sunshine is another very good one.. their products are all high potency herbs, all quality checked and guaranteed. Of course I too like to buy my own herbs in raw form and make my own capsules, tinctures, balms, etc. Cheaper that way.


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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: YidakiMan]
    #4030451 - 04/08/05 01:12 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

"For best results, the colon must be clear so that the body can absorb the most nutrients, and constipation is the biggest problem with just about anyone so the high enema is highly recommended and is almost a specific if you are serious about cleansing the system. "

While I think this is true it's also true that you can clean your colon too much. You should always replace the good bacteria after a cleansing program (Acidophilous, etc). It's really important to retain the good intestinal flora. Although, if you eat a lot of fruits and veggies, drink lot-o-water and stay away from meat, alcohol, simple sugars/starches and milk then you probably don't need to do this at all; but who can do all of that all of the time?


--------------------
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky


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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: Mobius_Strip]
    #4030466 - 04/08/05 01:19 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

You can clean the colon too much, but I don't think that's nearly as much of a problem as the amount of people with a jam-packed colon. What's worse being backed up or too free flowing? I'd say the former because then the toxins have a hard time being released and the intestines are not able to absorb as many nutrients from the food.

Eating a lot of refined foods coats the lining of the small intestine with a mucus film, which doesn't allow nutrients to pass through efficiently. Pepsin is a digestive enzyme which will break down this mucus, and should be combined with comfrey so that it will stick to the lining long enough to work.

At any case, for any intestinal cleansing I would recommend that slippery elm should almost always be taken, as it is an amazing, and highly nutritous herb that heals the intestines and digestive tract.


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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: Shroomism]
    #4030476 - 04/08/05 01:23 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks alot Shroomism.

Are peanuts unroasted?  Fruit is a big part of my diet now, WAY more than before.  I've been tryin to stay away from greasy, processed, ect, but I've gave in a few times recently :crazy:  I don't think i'll need to go so far as an enema, I go once a day now that i've payed attention to my diet somewhat.

I'm going to keep trying these homepathic medicines, because even if it's only placebo I have fatih the placebo itself.  If it works it works , right?

I will definatly look into those herbs you mentioned though.

I plan on fixing my weightlifting machine today and go biking too, so thats a start.

Thanks for the replys everyone!


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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Re: Your opinions on Homeopathy? [Re: barfightlard]
    #4030514 - 04/08/05 01:32 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

peanuts are unroasted only if they are unroasted :smirk: You can usually tell.. they will say roasted, and usually have sugar and salt added. roasting nuts destroys many of the essential amino and fatty acids, so it's best to eat raw. But basically if you eat the right foods that will cleanse your system naturally.. many fruits and vegetables are natural laxatives.


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