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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #12007492 - 02/11/10 07:42 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

People generally can only handle relationships with pet rocks.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleappleorange
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: Icelander]
    #12007887 - 02/11/10 09:33 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)



My name is Skeeter.

I'm the kind of guy who can be responsible throughout the week, but still manage to "rock" out on the weekends.

Anyone in SoCal, hit me up at skeeterpumps@gmail.com

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: appleorange]
    #12008000 - 02/11/10 09:57 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Don't forget to feed him.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMagicHombre
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #12012727 - 02/11/10 09:58 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

MagicHombre said:
This is why I think polyamorous/swinging relationships eventually fall apart




As opposed to which successful relationships? :sherlock:



Exactly!
Relationships begin and end, some sooner than others depending on the variables. The more variables, the more complex and harder to keep together.
It's elementary my dear Watson!


--------------------
The only thing I'm sure of is that you can't be sure of anything!

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OfflineMagicHombre
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: Icelander]
    #12012752 - 02/11/10 10:01 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Don't forget to feed him.



Oh no! I didn't know I was suppose to feed 'em!
I left mine at home for the weekend... :confused:


--------------------
The only thing I'm sure of is that you can't be sure of anything!

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: MagicHombre]
    #12014088 - 02/12/10 04:13 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MagicHombre said:
The more variables, the more complex and harder to keep together.





I don't buy that. Are you proposing that the relationships with the most chances are the ones in which the couple do absolutely nothing, ever? Just sit, don't work, don't talk... talking amongst themselves is a variable, after all... :smirk:

Quote:


Yes. Kids are smart and will recognize affection that is diverted from their biological mother to their father's new girlfriend or vice-versa.





Definitely. What that actually means to a kid, however, is determined by the nature of the relationship between their mother and father, how they each feel and think about it, and the way they act as result.
Are you trying to propose that one of a child's parents sharing affection with someone else is inherently damaging to the child? Sorry, don't see how it's the case.
Kids adapt to whatever environment they find themselves in, and how they feel about it emotionally is taken from cues from those which they share bonds.
If a child's parents have sex with other people, either together or as separate relationships, and both of their parents are emotionally mature, then the only question in terms of any of it serving as a detriment to the child is simply a question of how much time is spent raising the child as opposed to being away from them, the same going for any kind of occupation, hobby, or interest.
The only way I could see it being the same as a divorce is if the parents act as if they are divorced - if they have all sorts of negative emotions and reactions towards each other, if they barely spend any time together, if the child is neglected, not assured of mutual love, is left with uncertainty as to what might happen....
Since that isn't inherent to a couple having sex with other people in and of itself, then we might as well stop blaming it. :lol:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisiblelukeboots
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #12014535 - 02/12/10 08:42 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

MagicHombre said:
Yes. Kids are smart and will recognize affection that is diverted from their biological mother to their father's new girlfriend or vice-versa.





Definitely. What that actually means to a kid, however, is determined by the nature of the relationship between their mother and father, how they each feel and think about it, and the way they act as result.

Are you trying to propose that one of a child's parents sharing affection with someone else is inherently damaging to the child? Sorry, don't see how it's the case.
Kids adapt to whatever environment they find themselves in, and how they feel about it emotionally is taken from cues from those which they share bonds.
If a child's parents have sex with other people, either together or as separate relationships, and both of their parents are emotionally mature, then the only question in terms of any of it serving as a detriment to the child is simply a question of how much time is spent raising the child as opposed to being away from them, the same going for any kind of occupation, hobby, or interest.
The only way I could see it being the same as a divorce is if the parents act as if they are divorced - if they have all sorts of negative emotions and reactions towards each other, if they barely spend any time together, if the child is neglected, not assured of mutual love, is left with uncertainty as to what might happen....
Since that isn't inherent to a couple having sex with other people in and of itself, then we might as well stop blaming it. :lol:





I completely disagree.  A child will see the relationships the parents of others have, and compare it to his or her own family.  I grew up in a home with just my mom , and she dated people throughout my childhood.  I never had any ill feelings towards my biological father (didn't ever hear much about him, and didn't think much of it until adolescence) or my mother - in fact I have a very loving relationship with her, and have made peace with my deceased father - but regardless, I certainly noticed the differences in my mom's relationships compared to those of my friends' parents. It was confusing to me, and instead of feeling ill will towards my own father, I began to feel negative about each of these new men, some of whom I really didn't like, and most of which were a passing phase in my mother's life.  I don't blame any of them for my feelings, but the rules I learned about relationships growing up were very different from standard monogamy, or polyamory, and I am still making heads and tails of what short-term relationships mean to me. To argue that "the only thing that could be a detriment to the child" is the "[reduced] time spent raising them" is really not true. I hope you have the ability to challenge this point with your own opinion, as oppsed to a series of pointed questions about my experience.  Sexual relationships, married or not, polyamorous or not, really can affect children in profound ways. Nearly everything a parent does can affect a child in a profound way.


I am not sure I even see an a clear argument in your side besides "it is possible that it might work," which is of course true (there are always exceptions to social rules), but it's really not saying much.  Polyamory is difficult for most people to do in a respectable manner, more difficult than a monogamous relationship, primarily because more people's emotions are involved. That is my experience (now speaking of personal relationships, not my parents), and that is my opinion.


--------------------

funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: lukeboots]
    #12014568 - 02/12/10 08:52 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I think a big factor is how well the parent communicates with the child on these issues. My gf has two kids and so I get to see this for myself. However there is no problems for them as we talk with them as adults about almost all aspects of what goes on. I don't act like a father to them and they don't expect it but we do interact and don't try and pretend each other doesn't exist. Communicating is key.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblelukeboots
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: Icelander]
    #12014633 - 02/12/10 09:10 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Agreed, communication is super important!  I am glad to hear you are being open about things with your GFs kids.  The role you are playing (not acting like a father, but explaining the situation calmly and lovingly [i imagine]) is similar to what my eventual step-dad did, and I think it is a good role for a non-biological father figure to take on.

but.. you know, every situation will have those different "variables" that can change the participants perceptions pretty drastically (the age of the kid, the ability of the parents to communicate, a whole giant list of other things, including tiny details like what one classmate may say about the situation when they come to visit, or what a grandfather says about the situation that the kid might overhear, etcetc) 


Your girlfriends children are, I imagine, still affected by the situation, even if they are not showing it now.  I didn't begin to realize what my childhood had done to my image of father figures and men in general until I was probably 18-19 years old.  Relationships are very delicate things, especially when they involve children, and the moral/psychological implications in a childs mind can last a really long time.


I mean, as adults we can only spend so much time worrying about these sorts of things, or every step we take will be seen as the most important thing in the kids life - and that's just a giant headache for everyone involved.


--------------------

funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: lukeboots]
    #12015447 - 02/12/10 12:29 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I hear ya.:thumbup:


Very thing effects everything and there is one thing that must be faced imo. Life is never going to be a fairy tale and we have to work with what actually happens and make the best of it. And we can.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: lukeboots]
    #12017177 - 02/12/10 05:08 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

lukeboots said:
I completely disagree.....
I certainly noticed the differences in my mom's relationships compared to those of my friends' parents. It was confusing to me, and instead of feeling ill will towards my own father, I began to feel negative about each of these new men, some of whom I really didn't like, and most of which were a passing phase in my mother's life.




This doesn't contradict what I said. What you describe isn't the result of the nature of her relationships with other men.
Your negative feelings resulted from observing differences in her life as compared to the life of others.
The detriment didn't arise from her relationships with others any more than it would make sense to blame a friend's parents' perfect, monogamous relationship for the detriment.
My statement makes perfect sense, as I was only speaking of detriment which would arise from the dynamics of relationship itself and how it was conducted.

Quote:


I am not sure I even see an a clear argument in your side besides "it is possible that it might work," which is of course true (there are always exceptions to social rules), but it's really not saying much.




I'm not saying "its possible that it might work", although that's definitely true.
I'm saying that there isn't anything inherently at fault with a couple having sex with other people, nor anything inherently damaging to children relevant to such a relationship.
You can determine that it "really isn't saying much", but it certainly is saying something in response to those who alluded to these ideas as being the case but wouldn't then actually affirm them as being the case when pressed on the matter.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineMagicHombre
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #12017847 - 02/12/10 06:51 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

MagicHombre said:
The more variables, the more complex and harder to keep together.





I don't buy that. Are you proposing that the relationships with the most chances are the ones in which the couple do absolutely nothing, ever? Just sit, don't work, don't talk... talking amongst themselves is a variable, after all... :smirk:




Talking to and sleeping with other people is also a variable.
It's not something you have to buy. It's purely mathematical.
The more variables you add, the more complex the equation becomes. One would think that the amount of variables created by two human beings would be sufficient, but you never can tell what a human will do. Variables don't lie.

If A is man and B is woman.
EX:
A+B
AA+B
A+BB
AAA+B
AA+BB
A+BBB

And so on and so forth...


--------------------
The only thing I'm sure of is that you can't be sure of anything!

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: MagicHombre]
    #12020335 - 02/13/10 07:21 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

How can something so subjective as human emotions be "purely mathematical"?
Is it inherit for people to be troubled in their infancy if their parents are having sex vith various people? Is it inherit for people to feel offended when being told they're fat?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Offline5HTSynaptrip
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #12020386 - 02/13/10 07:43 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

IMO Polyamory is much harder than just plain swinging.  In poly you actually develop emotional connections with the others, many times intimate and that's why it's a much lower population group. 

Swingers on the other hand are everywhere and pretty much any major city will have more than one private swinger club.  The wife and I have been to one before and it was fucking wild to say the least. 

As for humans being monogamous, it's cultural imo as well.  Anyone heard of the Coolidge effect?  :lol:


--------------------


Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: MagicHombre]
    #12020450 - 02/13/10 08:05 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MagicHombre said:
It's not something you have to buy. It's purely mathematical.
The more variables you add, the more complex the equation becomes.




Yes, it is a matter of buying. Its a question of whether or not your "purely mathemtatical equation of variables" actually has any relevance, whether or not your conclusion regarding these variables is actually accurate.
You specifically stated that "the more variables, the more complex and difficult the relationship will be to stay together".

Again, if your description of the dynamics of the matter was accurate, the couple that always sat at home, not working, not doing anything, not even communicating together, would have the best chance of having a successful relationship, because things like jobs, activities, and expressing opinions and thoughts are variables.
Clearly, this doesn't make sense. Nowhere in reality is it implied that a relationship becomes increasingly complex and difficult with the more "variables" there are. What determines the actuality of the complexity and the difficulty is the motivations these individuals have for being together, their motivations for why they engage in these "variables", how they feel and what they think as a result, and how they manage all of this together with their partner(s).


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisiblelukeboots
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #12020695 - 02/13/10 09:30 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
I'm not saying "its possible that it might work", although that's definitely true.
I'm saying that there isn't anything inherently at fault with a couple having sex with other people, nor anything inherently damaging to children relevant to such a relationship.





Of course there is nothing "inherently" wrong with having sex with more than one person. Again, I don't think you're saying much here besides "sex is natural," which cannot be argued (but here we are anyway).


Quote:

You can determine that it "really isn't saying much", but it certainly is saying something in response to those who alluded to these ideas as being the case but wouldn't then actually affirm them as being the case when pressed on the matter.






Perhaps arguing with people who have "alluded to ideas" in a thread about personal experiences and opinions is not the wisest course of action.


--------------------

funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: lukeboots]
    #12020743 - 02/13/10 09:44 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

lukeboots said:
Of course there is nothing "inherently" wrong with having sex with more than one person. Again, I don't think you're saying much here besides "sex is natural," which cannot be argued (but here we are anyway).




No, here we aren't, as I'm not simply saying "sex is natural".


Quote:


Perhaps arguing with people who have "alluded to ideas" in a thread about personal experiences and opinions is not the wisest course of action.




Why?


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisiblelukeboots
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #12020767 - 02/13/10 09:51 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

What do you mean by "nothing inherently wrong" then?  Nothing is inherently wrong. 



As for the second quote, if you don't get it, that's ok.


--------------------

funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: lukeboots]
    #12023943 - 02/13/10 08:25 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

lukeboots said:
What do you mean by "nothing inherently wrong" then?  Nothing is inherently wrong.




I never said "nothing inherently wrong".
I stated that there was nothing inherently at fault with a couple having sex with other people in regards to having problems with a relationship, and also that there is nothing inherently damaging to children for their parents to have sex with other people.
That's my point, very specifically-expressed, just as specifically-expressed as it had been since I first mentioned it.
Absolutely no basis for concluding that I'm merely saying "sex is natural" or "nothing is inherently 'wrong'".

I thought you already knew I was specifically stating that I find it perfectly reasonable that a couple having sex with other people is not inherently damaging to a child, considering that you attempted to cite your personal experience in disagreement.
Remember? I pointed out that the relationships themselves were not at fault for your emotional detriment, but the difference you observed between her relationships and that of other families, a difference which isn't the fault of the relationships themselves.
I guess I had been right after all. :smile:

Quote:


As for the second quote, if you don't get it, that's ok.




Ahh, mystical ancient wisdom that dare not be spoke, then. :hypno: Spooky! :hypnotic:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineMagicHombre
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Re: Polyamory/ open Relationships? Any experience? Opinions? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #12024649 - 02/13/10 10:36 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
How can something so subjective as human emotions be "purely mathematical"?
Is it inherit for people to be troubled in their infancy if their parents are having sex vith various people? Is it inherit for people to feel offended when being told they're fat?



It's not emotions that are "purely mathematical." It's there obvious affects on a relationship. The more emotions, the more complex.
I never said they were "troubled" or "inherit."
All I said was that it's more complex. Feelings after all, are.

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

MagicHombre said:
It's not something you have to buy. It's purely mathematical.
The more variables you add, the more complex the equation becomes.




Yes, it is a matter of buying. Its a question of whether or not your "purely mathemtatical equation of variables" actually has any relevance, whether or not your conclusion regarding these variables is actually accurate.
You specifically stated that "the more variables, the more complex and difficult the relationship will be to stay together".

Again, if your description of the dynamics of the matter was accurate, the couple that always sat at home, not working, not doing anything, not even communicating together, would have the best chance of having a successful relationship, because things like jobs, activities, and expressing opinions and thoughts are variables.
Clearly, this doesn't make sense. Nowhere in reality is it implied that a relationship becomes increasingly complex and difficult with the more "variables" there are.



I believe you are misunderstanding...
My description of the "dynamics" is not a matter of "sitting at home, not working, not doing anything." It's a matter of adding more "dynamics" to an existing relationship in the form of other people and the multitude of emotions that come with people.
Quote:

What determines the actuality of the complexity and the difficulty is the motivations these individuals have for being together, their motivations for why they engage in these "variables", how they feel and what they think as a result, and how they manage all of this together with their partner(s).




And the more individuals, the more differences in motivations, the more difficult and complex the situation becomes.

Feel free to play the odds, but the house always wins.


--------------------
The only thing I'm sure of is that you can't be sure of anything!

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