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 skab
journeyman
Registered: 07/16/01
Posts: 53
Last seen: 23 years, 2 months
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 Ready to call it quits 
#400925 - 09/22/01 03:13 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well guys, I'm just about ready to give up on this hobby of mine.. I've had one success so far, the very first time, with a rye grain\perlite substrate, and since then, I've tried a million-an-a-half different methods, and ALL my jars smell like rotten apples within 2 DAYS.
I've followed PF Tek to the letter twice now, only to fail less than 48 hours later.
I'm using magick micron filter disks..
The only thing I can think of is that I'm using a big black pot to boil the jars, which was labeled as a "pressure canner" at the store, and was on the same shelf as the canning jars, but all it really is is a big black pot with a lid. I've tried boiling everywhere from 30-90 minutes with no luck..
This post is inspired by my latest failure.. 3 jars which I innoculated less than 48 hours ago, which already smell sweet and funky.. I have them in an incubation chamber constructed of a perlite-lined tupperware with a heating pad under it..
What the heck should I do? My first jars were so encouraging, and now I'm starting to think it was just a fluke.. I mean.. You're not even supposed to USE perlite in a substrate..
blah
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 Bigwelby
journeyman
Registered: 08/18/01
Posts: 59
Loc: Canada
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Re: Ready to call it quits [Re: skab]
#400935 - 09/22/01 03:24 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'd say if you're serious about the hobby you'll stick with it 
A big pot does _not_ sound like a pressure cooker. It sounds like a big pot. A pressure cooker would be handy me thinks.
Maybe also try starting everything fresh. Get really anal and clean the shit out of all your supplies etc etc...have a spotless little "lab" and everything. Maybe that'll start a new winning streak for you!
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kingkc
enthusiast
Registered: 04/24/00
Posts: 1,064
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Ready to call it quits [Re: Bigwelby]
#400953 - 09/22/01 03:46 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Whatever you do don't give up. Get a pressure cooker and you will have way more success. It took me over a year to learn that. In fact you will come up with your own substrate and spawn formula. Practically everybody has their pet whatever.
Yes DO NOT throw in the towel for good. It's cool to take a breather but get to where you can do it every time!!
Peace.
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AbeZard
member
Registered: 07/20/01
Posts: 164
Loc: Charleston, SC
Last seen: 23 years, 2 months
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Re: Ready to call it quits [Re: skab]
#400954 - 09/22/01 03:46 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Don't quit! I felt the same way three weeks ago. 8 dry grams later, I am happy now.
Just consider that maybe the shrooms are testing your character to be sure you are worthy of the extreme happy high that is waiting for you.
Abe Zaardvark
From historic coastal town in Southeast
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Abe Zaardvark
From historic coastal town in Southeast
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NuShroomPharmerII
old hand
Registered: 11/02/99
Posts: 453
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: skab]
#400957 - 09/22/01 03:47 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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skab
journeyman
Registered: 07/16/01
Posts: 53
Last seen: 23 years, 2 months
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Nah, it just kinda sits there.. I'm not exactly sure if the pot/boiling is the problem though, since it's not a visible contam such as green mold or cobweb.. Its just a sweet, rotten smell, and a lack of growth of any kind.. I've tried messing around with the water content and everything
I just bought a pound of finch seed which I've heard works well in accordance with MMFDs, so I figure I'll give that a shot next.. Maybe I'd want a PC first.. hmm
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skab
journeyman
Registered: 07/16/01
Posts: 53
Last seen: 23 years, 2 months
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Re: Ready to call it quits [Re: skab]
#400963 - 09/22/01 03:55 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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on a brighter note, I just finished building my 15gal aquariam w/ air entrainment setup, and stuck a tray of Mexi Cubes in there which I've already gotten 2 flushes off of.. The pinset on this third flush looks like it's gonna put the other 2 to shame.. About 60 pins which are 1"+ tall.. If I had a better digicam, I'd post pics..
But dammit, I dont want these to be my last ones :(
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FungusFarmer
old hand
Registered: 09/19/00
Posts: 260
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Just consider that maybe the shrooms are testing your character to be sure you are worthy of the extreme happy high that is waiting for you.
==================================
Listen to what he said, don't underestimate mushrooms! Just like assholes don't see what the big deal is about tryptamines, Shrooms don't reveal their true selves until they feel you are worthy to recieve it. This sounds like a bunch of crazy BS, but you will understand when you get that first fat flush!
Anyways, go to ebay. You can get a AWESOME pressure cooker there for $10, easy. You don't need the biggest baddest pressure canner, just some small pressure cooker that will hold a few jars. It will suck running that thing three or four times to get all your jars sterilized, but it's better than making mold and bacteria over and over again.
Seriously, check out ebay, you can pick great stuff up there. Either that or ask around, someone is bound to have one. I picked mine up at Wal Mart for $30, then a friend tried to sell me his a week later for $5! DOH!
Stick with it! The Rose Bowl NEVER saw a celebration so great as the day you get your first set of jars to colonize 100% cleanly!
Grover
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"What did you dream...it's all right we told you what to dream! Welcome, my son, to The Machine" Roger Waters, Pink FloydEdited by FungusFarmer on 09/22/01 04:58 PM.
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-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "What did you dream...it's all right we told you what to dream! Welcome, my son, to The Machine" Roger Waters, Pink Floyd
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skab
journeyman
Registered: 07/16/01
Posts: 53
Last seen: 23 years, 2 months
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Re: Ready to call it quits [Re: skab]
#400973 - 09/22/01 04:09 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Screw it.. Grainy pics are better than no pics, right? :)
Modified coolmist humidifer with a micro-filter over the air intake, running into 3/4" PVC pipes. Tray's on 'stilts' 1 1/2 inches off the floor of the aquarium. Holes are drilled in the PVC 1" apart (5 inches to the cropping surface) and there is 1" of spare room between the aquarium walls and the tray on either side, to allow air to flow under the trays. There's a CO2 exhaust 1" below the level of the cropping surface, near the other end of the aquarium, which is covered with some poly-fill. Thats a simple little reptile therm/hygrometer stuck to the wall there :)
These are more of Ryche's Mexi-Cubs. I've had fairly small, uneven (but potent!) yields so far, which totaled about 10 dry grams, but this new setup seems to be kicking the tray into high gear for this flush.
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skab
journeyman
Registered: 07/16/01
Posts: 53
Last seen: 23 years, 2 months
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Re: Ready to call it quits [Re: skab]
#400977 - 09/22/01 04:13 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nah, of course I wouldnt actually quit.. Whatever the pressure cooker costs, its cheaper than letting all the money I've spent so far go to waste.. But for the first 10 minutes or so, the smell of contaminated jars will make you say funny things..
Oh, and I love your icon FungusFarmer.. Thanks for the inspiration guys :)
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NuShroomPharmerII
old hand
Registered: 11/02/99
Posts: 453
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: skab]
#400979 - 09/22/01 04:15 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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skab
journeyman
Registered: 07/16/01
Posts: 53
Last seen: 23 years, 2 months
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I'm worried to leave it more than 90 min, cause I heard there's a danger of actually 'overcooking' the substrate, and having it break down the nutrients. The upside down lid does actually sound better, cause the jars end up looking pretty wet. Thanks for the advice man..
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ralphster44
collector
Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 4,657
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Re: Ready to call it quits [Re: skab]
#400982 - 09/22/01 04:24 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by administrator.
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oscill8
*bondage fairy*
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 1,215
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Re: Ready to call it quits [Re: skab]
#400983 - 09/22/01 04:28 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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hi skab- there are actually 2 kinds of pressure canners, the one like you have is a "water bath canner", and the other ones that are traditionally used for the hobby is the "team pressure canner" (the ones with knobs, weights, and valves).
they sell 2 kinds b/c you can foods in 2 ways. high acid foods, like fruits, are canned using a water bath canner because these foods dont require the killing of botulism and other nasties (b/c botulism doesnt grow in high acid environments). so you dont need a high temp (250 degrees/15psi) to kill them. but low acid foods, such as meats and stews and such, (as well as substrates for the hobby) can hide botulism and other bacterias/molds/nasties that can only be eradicated at high temps.- which cannot be achieved thru a boiling water canner (which reaches a temp of only 212), but by increasing the pressure within the canner and thereby increasing the temps inside as the pressure rises.
anyhow :) the pf tek only requires the water bath canner, which you already have. (or any pot you can boil water in). some suggestions... just thinking out loud..
1.) have you tried the control jar technique (let sterilized jars sit un-innoculated a few days)? you may want to try b/c you dont know if your contam prollems are coming from innoculation or the substate. you may just be having an innoculation problem (which HQ has managed to eradicate by doing all innoculations inside a glovebox- 100% clean since she started).
2.) have you always used a heating pad? are the jars warm? HQ used one for incubation once, and she accidentally "cooked" some jars- they had that sweet smell too. but they turned out fine eventually. after she turned the heating pad off.
3.) for the pf tek i believe you should be boiling the jars at 60 minutes. wouldnt go under that- perhaps even more. but not less.
4.) if you got really deperate, you could presterilize all of your substrate ingredients before making into pf substrate. like, baking your rice/flour (dry) in the oven at 250 degrees before grinding/mixing with verm. using boiled water thats cooled down for the water. nuking the verm for 8 minutes in the microwave. now, in the end theyre not absolutely sterile, as youll be exposing all to open air. but the high temps may lower problems- perhaps youre just using an ingredient with a high bacteria content. this will add a pretty long extra step though.
id keep the jars and see if theyll do anything... also, on a sidenote- my pressure canner (the steam pressure kind though) always leaves my jars smelling funny. like, theres a definite smell ON the jars, but not in them- just from buildup inside the canner (mineral content of water, etc.) ... not a bad thing, but perhaps the smell is from somewhere else? longshot, but i thought id throw it out there.
sorry though :(
***Please Donate Blood. American Red Cross***
--------------------
? oscill8 2001, 2002
"Any data submitted to Shroomery.org becomes our property"
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skab
journeyman
Registered: 07/16/01
Posts: 53
Last seen: 23 years, 2 months
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Re: Ready to call it quits [Re: oscill8]
#400989 - 09/22/01 04:42 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Dem's sum really good ideas.. The jars do look much wetter after I take them out of the canner, but I figured I was safe using the tinfoil layer of the jars, so no droplets could fall on them.. I hadnt exactly considered the fact that the pressure inside the canner was high enough to kinda force more moisture into the jars.. I'm gonna try another batch of PF style tonight with the metal lids on, and see if that helps..
As for the incubater, I have a thermometer in there at the level of the jars closest to the heating pad, and it reads about 80-85 most of the time. The smell is definately coming from inside the jars, cause i can only smell it if I cup my hand over the jars, and kinda smell through the filter layer, but I'm fairly sure the problem isnt in innoculation. The moist, gooey look settles around the entire jar within the first 24 hours, and isnt more pronounced at innoculation points.
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Samuel J
Mullet Poacher
Registered: 09/28/99
Posts: 19
Loc: The Commonwealth
Last seen: 22 years, 5 months
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Re: Ready to call it quits [Re: skab]
#401015 - 09/22/01 05:21 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Get yourself some:
CLOROX Disinfecting Spray.
It only costs a buck or two, and kills 99.9% of nasty contaminates floating around in your laboratory. Just spray everything with this stuff before you innoculate, and you should be fine.
Sam
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oscill8
*bondage fairy*
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 1,215
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Re: Ready to call it quits [Re: skab]
#401020 - 09/22/01 05:27 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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sounds too wet, when you say *gooey* :)
are you sure waters not splashing into your jars, knocking off the water ratio? the water in the canner should only be pretty low, maybe 1/3 of the way up the jars when theyre in the canner. the tinfoil will help water from dripping on the jars (water accumulating from the inside of the lid) but if the water level is too high, it can splash up and in the jars.
HQ notices the mm disks get wet after sterilization, just from the steam inside (not a bad thing, but something to be expected). are you letting them air dry before innoculation? another vector.
***Please Donate Blood. American Red Cross***
--------------------
? oscill8 2001, 2002
"Any data submitted to Shroomery.org becomes our property"
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puscle
genius of love
Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 4,539
Loc: NY
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Re: Ready to call it quits [Re: skab]
#401030 - 09/22/01 05:46 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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And I can only question the inoculate your using.
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skab
journeyman
Registered: 07/16/01
Posts: 53
Last seen: 23 years, 2 months
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Re: Ready to call it quits [Re: puscle]
#401033 - 09/22/01 05:53 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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The water level is somewhat less than halfway up on the jars; I dont think quite high enough to splash to the tops.. For innoculating, I've been using Mexi-Cub syringes from The Hawks Eye, which I've had in the fridge for 2 months or so.. I've had success with them in the past, so they werent my first culprit, but I'm open to any solutions
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puscle
genius of love
Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 4,539
Loc: NY
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Re: Ready to call it quits [Re: skab]
#401042 - 09/22/01 06:27 PM (23 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well, then, get a pressure cooker.
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