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Offlinealsey
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LSD to 'cure' addiction?
    #3963607 - 03/24/05 05:52 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

my ex developed a serious coke addiction about a year ago, which was ultimately the reason we broke up, and now wants to quit. she tried a few months ago but relapsed after 4 days.

now she's thinking of doing a big dose of acid to try and break the addiction. i've heard that this has worked in some cases in the past, but realistically what are the chances of success? she's thinking of quitting the coke, then a few days later eating like 5 hits. she's had several acid trips before, but never more than one hit at a time.

what are people's thoughts on this? is it worth a try or just plain stupid?


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OfflineAldous
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: alsey]
    #3963630 - 03/24/05 06:11 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I think she should be careful and not expect miracles. LSD can, in a way, "break addiction", but the surest way to achieve this would be in a guided, therapeutical context. The LSD is not going to do the trick all by itself and automatically stop the addiction. It's more of a powerful tool that helps people realize why they got addicted in the first place, but the work to keep away from whatever it is they are addicted to is still up to them.

Also, if she's only done one hit at a time, 5 sounds like a lot.

So it could work, but there's no guarantee and there's a risk for a bummer, especially if she expects something so specific going into the trip.

Ibogaine would be more what she's looking for, but I wouldn't know where you could find that...


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Offlinealsey
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: alsey]
    #3963654 - 03/24/05 06:28 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

to be honest, she's not expecting it to 'do the trick' but she thinks it will help. i'm just concerned its going to be overwhelmingly strong and fuck her up even more. i told her maybe 3 hits would be a better idea but she says that won't be strong enough.


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Offlinestefan
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: alsey]
    #3963676 - 03/24/05 06:44 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I never had a proper acid experiance, but I've read that shrooms 'kick your ass' harder when it comes to bad habits etc. Maybe acid is just as well capable of that, but I can't tell from experiance.

It sure is worth a try, but I wouldn't dose too high (5 hits in stead of the usual 1 seems a bit overdone), you want her to think about serious stuff and not copletely fly out of this world seeing nothing but fractals :p . 2-3 hits sounds more reasonable...

First staying off coke for a few days--> then acid sounds good. could lead to a bad trip though because of a bad mindset, but maybe that is what she needs to figure things out (?). The problem is that th coke use has become a habit so she needs fo find other activities to replace it and keep her mind off it. It's not like 'just' a trip will solve her problems. It might give her more motivation to quit/seek help though.

If it doesn't work send her to rehab :thumbup:


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: stefan]
    #3963850 - 03/24/05 08:57 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Well, if she really wanted to quit she should get professional help. I don't have any statistics off-hand, but using LSD to cope with addictions has only proven to be marginally successful.

Even in the cases where LSD has been employed to treat addictions, it was used as an adjunct to more "traditional" treatments (therapy etc.).

In short, the chances of your girlfriend taking a massive dose of LSD and having her cocaine addiction spontaneously disappear are very slim (at best). If she's serious about quitting there are methods which are much more successful.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Offlinerdnp2035
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: badchad]
    #3964357 - 03/24/05 12:37 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

This has been a serious sect of psychedelic use for a long time.

In the 50's there was great success giving addicts a huge dose of acid with a psychologist on hand. There's simular processes underground, in europe, and using ayahuasca in south america.

But part of the trick is taking a Lot. Like, a 10 Strip. And having a support system to guide the person through some serious inner healing is needed.
But hey..coke will kill you, a moster dose of acid wont. If she's willing to take a chance, she should do it even without a perfect setting with pro help.

Also..I would agree that mushrooms "kick your ass more"..they will break it down and tell you all about what you are doing wrong and why. But..it's like a voice from above, an honest but momentary insight. If she hasn't listened to herself and others for this long, the mushroom man probably wont do long term convincing either.

I think it is probably easier to get good and Dead from a bunch of acid than a lot of shrooms...a shattering experience of letting go would probably be more effect in in this kind of situation.

Ibogine has proven effective..but this may be largely because its so damn strong. The dosage used for addiction treatment is huge. Your completely gone for well over 24 hours, if not 2 days.


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Offlinealsey
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: rdnp2035]
    #3964445 - 03/24/05 01:01 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

do you think its possible to find a psychologist that would be willing to sit for someone doing illegal drugs? i guess its worth looking into. she wants me to sit for her. i know her probably better than anyone else, but i guess that's no substitute for professional skills.

a 10-strip sounds scary. i've tried the acid from this batch and its pretty strong, i reckon about 150-200mcg per tab. i guess if you do that much you just get blown away so far you wouldn't even find it scary.


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Offlineilikebigbuds21
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: rdnp2035]
    #3964927 - 03/24/05 03:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I do not know about coke, but like RDNP said, it was used a lot back un the middle of the century. Psychologists would give a fairly big dose to alcoholics in hopes of trying to sure the addiction. It worked for over 50% of patients tried on, but this may be due to lack of expectations before the trip, having most of the trip based on their alcoholism and why they should stop, etc.


--------------------
I don't think
I just drink

Cowgold said:
Blacks don't eat mushrooms. You can't be black. It's impossible.


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Offlinethe_phoenix
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: ilikebigbuds21]
    #3965835 - 03/24/05 07:07 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

If she can't quit coke then I don't know that she's mature (for lack of a better word) enough not to bad trip on that many hits. Though maybe a bad trip's just what she needs...


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: alsey]
    #3966056 - 03/24/05 08:06 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yes LSD works wonders with addictions; it cleaned me up a lot, got me off opiates (although I've relapsed....I always get off again though)& I no longer use other hard drugs, coke for instance. It has also helped me out with depression and social anxiety. It's worth a shot, just don't expect miracles....and remember set & setting. Good luck.


--------------------


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Offlinerdnp2035
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: Dark_Star]
    #3966148 - 03/24/05 08:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

There are alternative docs out there still using psychedelics in treatment. But who knows how to get in contact with them..probably an elite circle.

I doubt your hits are 200ug..but that's just from what I read about how acid is normaly laid these days. They say it Rarely goes over 100ug per hit. They would use about 1000ug in this kind of treatment to knock someone out of their habbits. Certainly that is a monster dose, but..this is serious buissness. .

Maybe you should get in touch with addiction recovery groups in your area, or track down some alternative healers. You might be able to get a lead on someone with dirrect experience in guiding a deep healing trip.

Oh..ask Chinacat if his has any insight on the matter. I believe he mentioned writing a paper on the subject..althought it may have been geared toward ibogine.


I know what you're saying dark star, someone else said something about 200mic hits. 300ug liquid is wild..I hope some falls on me.


Edited by rdnp2035 (03/24/05 08:59 PM)


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: rdnp2035]
    #3966156 - 03/24/05 08:45 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Lower doses can be just as effective....and I never said doses were 200mics, quite the opposite in fact.....although some liquid is very potent, 300-400mics a drop.


--------------------


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Offlinealsey
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: the_phoenix]
    #3969185 - 03/25/05 04:34 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

the_phoenix said:
If she can't quit coke then I don't know that she's mature (for lack of a better word) enough not to bad trip on that many hits. Though maybe a bad trip's just what she needs...




whether its a 'good' or 'bad' trip is irrelevant. she's not doing this to have fun. its the long term effects that are important.

as for the dose, this stuff is much stronger than any other acid i've tried. its canadian, which i've heard is usually pretty strong. maybe 200mcg is a bit of an overestimate, but i reckon 150 at least.

anyway, she had her last line yesterday and she's going to do 5 hits on sunday. i've been with her all day (it hasn't been nice!) and will be until the day after the trip. we've been doing some meditating together and talking about stuff. i'll let you all know how it goes.


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: alsey]
    #3969719 - 03/25/05 07:24 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Good luck!


--------------------


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Offlinealsey
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: alsey]
    #3979948 - 03/28/05 01:22 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

well, she took the acid about 9:00 yesterday morning. she was feeling pretty shitty beforehand, but went into it with a pretty good mindset i think: to see what lucy showed her.

we had a free house for the day, and the following day (today). we sat in the bedroom from when she dropped until the peak was clearly over. i just sat there most of the time, just talking when she wanted to talk. she came up pretty fast, feeling the first rushes after 40 minutes. from there, everything happened quite quickly. she was still and silent most of the time. about 3 hours in, she sat up shouting "fuck! fuck!" and lots of meaningless babble. i managed to calm her down, but she was incapable of describing what was upsetting her. she eventually went back to just lying down in silence. about an hour later, she started talking. we talked about all the stuff that had happened over the last year (she's had the coke problem for about a year now). it wasn't really a discussion, more like a story-telling session. about 17:00, we went out for a walk in a nearby forest. she had begun to sober up quite a bit at this time. we talked about lots of stuff, and by the time we returned to the house she was pretty much straight again. she said she experienced complete ego loss during the trip for what she thought was many hours. she said she felt as if her mind was the mind of the world, and not just herself. there were lots of other things, which i won't bother to detail.

today she seemed a lot better (compared to saturday), still has coke cravings but she's says they aren't as bad. she said the acid 'worked', but only time will tell.


--------------------
"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: alsey]
    #3981370 - 03/28/05 08:29 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The acid will help you to get off the drugs.....staying off them, working to stay clean is up to you though. I wish you and you're gf the best.


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Offlinewjames
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: alsey]
    #3984929 - 03/29/05 01:32 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It's good that your friend feels so strongly. But more important than a temporary strong anger at her addiction--which comes and goes--is a longlasting, constant opposition within her mind. That is what will bring results.

The idea of using one big dose to cure an addiction is not realistic. An addiction has complex and deep psychological roots that aren't likely to be sorted out all at once.

It is true that some psychiatrists used LSD in the 1950s and 1960s to treat addiction--and perhaps with some success, too. But that was a combination of LSD, taken over many sessions, with psychotherapy. Perhaps one could substitute reading for the psychotherapy, but there needs to be some kind of mentally disciplined effort to "know thyself" besides ingesting a substance.

Another thing: As described by Dr. Stanley Grof in his famous book, LSD Psychotherapy, LSD can bring out major repressed issues.

If the person is not ready to face certain issues, and if they use the addiction to avoid these very issues, making them prematurely conscious could work to *increase* the addiction.

As an alternative to LSD, she might consider working with salvia, which has the advantange of being legal.


--------------------
"We're all in this consciousness-raising business together."
"An idle mind is the devil's workshop."
"Everyone should eat hashish, but only once." - S. Dali


Edited by wjames (03/29/05 02:30 PM)


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OfflineAldous
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: wjames]
    #3985382 - 03/29/05 03:03 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

While I do agree with most of what you said, I have a few remarks.
Quote:

wjames said:The idea of using one big dose to cure an addiction is not realistic. An addiction has complex and deep psychological roots that aren't likely to be sorted out all at once.
It is true that some psychiatrists used LSD in the 1950s and 1960s to treat addiction--and perhaps with some success, too. But that was a combination of LSD, taken over many sessions, with psychotherapy


What you are referring to was known back then as "psycholytic therapy", and was mostly used in Europe. In the US and Canada, they preferred "psychedelic therapy", which consisted of one massive dose taken after extensive preparation. They hoped it would elicit some kind of peak religious or mystical experience which would shatter the old personality and habits of the subject and completely change their lives, like in some people who went through an NDE, for instance. I would rather have the psycholytic variety, but it must be said that they had some success with psychedelic therapy. I guess that is what this girl had heard of and tried to accomplish by herself.
Quote:

As an alternative to LSD, she might consider working with salvia, which has the advantange of being legal.


...but is much more confusing and much less manageable IMHO. First time I hear of salvia being used against addiction. Has it been done before?


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Offlinewjames
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: Aldous]
    #3989164 - 03/30/05 08:33 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Aldous said:
What you are referring to was known back then as "psycholytic therapy", and was mostly used in Europe. In the US and Canada, they preferred "psychedelic therapy", which consisted of one massive dose taken after extensive preparation. They hoped it would elicit some kind of peak religious or mystical experience which would shatter the old personality and habits of the subject and completely change their lives, like in some people who went through an NDE, for instance. I would rather have the psycholytic variety, but it must be said that they had some success with psychedelic therapy.



Thank you very much for explaining this difference. I wonder to what extent the use of single doses was partly motivated by practical constraints--such as limited access by researchers to the study participants.

Quote:

...but [salvia] is much more confusing and much less manageable IMHO. First time I hear of salvia being used against addiction. Has it been done before?



I was thinking of small doses--the idea being to learn several 'little' lessons rather than one big one. I don't know if it's been done before.


--------------------
"We're all in this consciousness-raising business together."
"An idle mind is the devil's workshop."
"Everyone should eat hashish, but only once." - S. Dali


Edited by wjames (03/30/05 08:38 AM)


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OfflineAldous
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Re: LSD to 'cure' addiction? [Re: wjames]
    #3989261 - 03/30/05 09:19 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

wjames said:
Thank you very much for explaining this difference. I wonder to what extent the use of single doses was partly motivated by practical constraints--such as limited access by researchers to the study participants.



Not at all, I would say. The participants were often people in rehab centers or psychiatric institutions, so access would have been almost unlimited.

I think it was more of a conceptual difference. Europeans tend to be more intellectually oriented, and wary of religious situations. That's why they preferred to talk things through with their patients. Americans like to keep things straightforward and are not afraid of a pinch of mysticism, so they would go for the peak experience. Just conjecture, but I think it makes sense.


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