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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Got some HBWR- any advice?
    #3872363 -

I have around 26 seeds and plan on perhaps making a tea from some,
can anyone tell me if these things actually cause any serious negative effects?
Best preparation method? Dose?

I think one guy said on here that they have caused people to go insane? Do you think they are worse than shrooms?

Please don't post links to erowid e.t.c

Thanks

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Re: Got some HBWR- any advice? [Re: monolith4]
    #3872869 -

ok, here we go, dont make tea with hot water, use cold water, heat kills the active chemicals. while cold water extraction isnt bad, theres also more thorough polar/non-polar extractions. the serious side effects are nausea, vomitting, body load, stomach pain... you prob wont go insane unless you have underlying issues just like any other psychedelic. and why not post links to erowid? thats would prob be the most help to you, infact since we are not allowed to rcommend dosage, TRY EROWID FOR DOSAGE, preparation and side effects too, they have all this info there. honestly if youre asking questions like this you prob should read a little more on it before trying it. and im still trying to figure out what you mean by 'worse than shrooms'.

Edited by empnero (03/05/05 12:42 PM)

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Re: Got some HBWR- any advice? [Re: empnero]
    #3873256 -

If you are considering ingesting them, I would highly recommend a NP/polar extraction. If you eat the seeds plain, you will be ingesting cyanogenic glycosides which convert to cyanide in the body. Yes, cyanide, the same thing in suicide pills and some gas chambers. This is the main reason you puke and have a horrible body load, although LSA does have a minor body load itself.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Got some HBWR- any advice? [Re: dblaney]
    #3875230 -

Yeah, I have some advice. Throw the seeds in the trash.

I've tried LSA like 5 times, and 4/5 were hellish. 1 time was great AND hell. More great, but it still ended badly.

LSA is like reverse russian roullete. You get your head blown off 5/6 tries.


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

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Re: Got some HBWR- any advice? [Re: freddurgan]
    #3875637 -

yeah, all i hear about HBWR/morning glory seems to be pretty bad....ive heard 1 or 2 good things tho


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...

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Re: Got some HBWR- any advice? [Re: SHiZNO]
    #3878680 -

i tried a cold water extraction the first time i tried HBWR seeds. i did a high dose my first time and while it was a great body sensation (reminded me of ecstasy, the way everything tingles in your body from the slightest touch) i didn't get any visuals whatsoever. good body trip though for me


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:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Re: Got some HBWR- any advice? [Re: SuperD]
    #3878904 -

try planting 8-10 seeds, 26 is too many for your garden

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Re: Got some HBWR- any advice? [Re: dblaney]
    #3879006 -

.

Edited by moecat (10/17/05 07:03 PM)

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Re: Got some HBWR- any advice? [Re: moecat]
    #3879247 -

Fuck all that shit ^

Take 8 crush em up and drink with cold water.
I had no neg. effects whatsoever. My friend threw up a little, but he has a majorly weak stomache.

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Re: Got some HBWR- any advice? [Re: moecat]
    #3880137 -

Interesting analysis, well done :thumbup:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Got some HBWR- any advice? [Re: dblaney]
    #3880452 -

I used to soak the crushed up seeds, with the fuzzy skin removed, in water/lemon juice for a while and then swish that around in my mouth for 15 minutes.. Tasted fine and worked, but reduced the potency maybe %50. I never had any stomach issues with that, but it wasn't really a problem just eating them either.
I think HBWR are alright. It's not a real exciting high, it makes some people sick..but I had a few good times with them.

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Re: Got some HBWR- any advice? [Re: rdnp2035]
    #3948241 -

I've had nothing but bad experiences with these...horrible nausea and body load, even after the polar/non-polar extraction method. Some (light) visuals and interesting thoughts, but I could never really get past the body load/nausea...can't say I recommend them, but it seems like some people have had very positive experiences, so maybe it's an individual thang.

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Re: Got some HBWR- any advice? [Re: moecat]
    #4389178 -

Quote:

I think if you read this paper, you'll find that the nasty stuff could just as well be phenolic acids and glycoside esters such as chlorogenic acid.


First off, no one has ever shown me any evidence that cyanogenic glycosides are present in the psychoactive convolvulaceae, and neither have I been able to locate any studies claiming thus. Hence I believe it is a myth.
Now, your hypothesis concerning the phenolic compounds is very interesting. One problem is that chlorogenic acid is, contrariously, considered an anti-emetic. Also, coffee, and several other foods, contain large amounts of these compounds, without inducing similar effects. Of course, the dose makes the poison - fairly large amounts of seed material is consumed per dose, and the percentage content is relatively very high. Both chlorogenic acid and caffeic acid cause increased bile release and/or production, which could certainly account for the GI symptoms. The main problem, however, is this: most people find the petroleum ether-alcohol "extraction" method to signficantly (but not completely) reduce nausea, and eliminate diarrhea. This wash is precisely the method used in the Dao-Friedman paper to quantify the phenolic content, as it yields nearly the entire amount.
Incidentally, chlorogenic and caffeic acids are potent antioxidants and have much medicinal potential (possibly offset by chlorogenic acid being clastogenic).
The whole issue of the psychoactive convolvulaceae quite mysterious - conrcrete data of the most fundamental kind is generally unknown, despite all manners of speculation.

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Re: Got some HBWR- any advice? [Re: stvip]
    #4389207 -

Ok, so check:
J. Agric. Food Chem. 1990, 38, 805-808
"Effect of Autoclaving and Conventional and Microwave Baking on the
Ergot Alkaloid and Chlorogenic Acid Contents of Morning Glory
(Ipomoea tricolor Cav. cv.) Heavenly Blue Seeds"

One myth busted here: heat does degrade the ergot alkaloids, but not to the extent commonly believed. When seed flour is mixed with wheat flour, most of the ergine, ergonovine, and especially lysergol, survives baking (100-200c, 5-30 minutes) and microwaving (btw, the researchers actually made a muffin out of the morning glories - cue Homer Simpson). Of course, we already know that in general ergot alkaloids should survive such conditions - St. Anthony's Fire was usually caused by ingestion of baked rye bread, not raw grains.
The phenolic compounds, however, are much more labile. If your hypothesis is correct, making MG muffins would be an effective, nutritious (the authors observe that the protein of MG seeds is very high quality, and if a simple method were present to remove the ergot alkaoids, MG could be a good food crop) dosing form which would have greatly reduced adverse effects.
C'mon everyone, get an apron and roll up your sleeves! Oh, and bake MG muffins while you do that.

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Re: Got some HBWR- any advice? [Re: stvip]
    #4389225 -

Oh, that same paper also shows significant trypsin inhibition by MG seeds. This could be relevant indeed to GI disturbances (I would like some input on that). Baking takes care of that too, destroying most of the inhibitory activity (presumably caused by a proteinaceous substance?). So if muffins are effective in abolishing most of the GI symptoms, your hypothesis might still be incorrect. Still - "result!".

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Re: Got some HBWR- any advice? [Re: stvip]
    #4389246 -

Then, I recall your post in the "LSA Analysis" thread. Light seems to degrade the phenolic compounds, but leaves the ergolines mostly intact. So another method, useful for differentiating between phenolic compounds and trypsin inhibition as major causative factors of GI disturbances, is to compare the effects baking and light exposure on the subjective properties of the end product.
Of course, all this is rather useless without a research group of human test subjects forming in, say, the Netherlands, since the subjective effects of seed consumption fluctuates widely. That might not actually be as far-fetched as it sounds. (assuming seed consumption is legal in the Netherlands)

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Re: Got some HBWR- any advice? [Re: stvip]
    #4389303 -

you want my advice? avoid HBWR seeds...

they are terrible. worst trips of my life--done it twice. nauseating and painful in the legs. thought i was going to die.

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Re: Got some HBWR- any advice? [Re: monolith4]
    #4389607 -

My only advice is drink some pure lemon juice too or the nausea will kill ya.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

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Re: Got some HBWR- any advice? [Re: TYL3R]
    #4391280 -

x_TYLER_x said:
Fuck all that shit ^

Take 8 crush em up and drink with cold water.
I had no neg. effects whatsoever.


I just had my first HBWR experience this Friday and had a GREAT time! I just crushed up 10 seeds and picked out all of the shell, trying not to waste any seed. I wraped up the crushed seeds in tiny pieces of kleenex and parachuted them. I never heard any bad things about it before taking them (except for nausea) and I had no bad things happen, I'll put up a little trip report. You should deffinetly go for the LSA trip but I would recomend just crushing them up and swallowing them becasuse you can't get all of the LSA in the extraction, you'll be throwing some away.


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