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Invisibleagar
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Elementary & Often Overlooked
    #3863933 - 03/03/05 07:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Often, walking through WalMart, Kmart, Target, Dollar-Store, Big-Lots, or many other discount type retail stores. You often see 8, 10, 12 or 16 quart plastic dishpan type trays that, would make PERFECT bulk grow trays, because of their size (length - width - depth), on sale for about a dollar per tray.

You pick one up & hold it against a bright light & frown. Because the trays are semi-translucent. Meaning, during fruiting, if you use a wire rack, or wire shelve system - enough light could/might/would shine through the bottom & sides that it could/might/would lead to bottom & side pinning.

We all know unseen mushrooms, on the underside of a substrate ???.rot :mad2:.

Since this type trays is available almost everywhere, has optimal dimensions, and are so inexpensive. It is worthwhile to simply purchase them in pairs, then NEST two together - with a single layer of aluminum foil between the two. Presto, for about $2 - you have the PERFECT BULK TRAY that light cannot shine through, is readily available, inexpensive, light-weight & easy to use.

Moreover - if you cling wrap spawned bulk substrate trays - during the spawn run incubation period. You simply cling wrap the inner tray, set it in the outer tray & never have to worry about the cling wrap coming undone, until you want it to.





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InvisibleHolydiver
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: agar]
    #3863995 - 03/03/05 07:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Very true, there are so many optimum containers out there. Always be on the lookout.

Stumbled on these dishpans at the dollar store today. 6"x12"x15" $0.99 apiece!



--------------------
To find a place to live between the negatives and positives.


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OfflineKaptKid
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: agar]
    #3864009 - 03/03/05 07:50 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Very frugal.I've been painting these's black but after each clean up have to repaint.This will be a lesser pain in the ass.

As always, good work.


:mushroomgrow:


--------------------
Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.


:sun:


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: KaptKid]
    #3864474 - 03/03/05 09:09 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Same here, The dollar tree rocks the cradle :thumbup:

I like the aluminum foil idea, my metal trays rusted once :thumbdown:, and i really should have put aluminum foil over em'.....oh well

Hey agar, is that a plastic tray? :thumbup:

-Gnostic


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #3864492 - 03/03/05 09:12 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)



--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


Teh=The

I need to proofread


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OfflineShroomGod
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: tahoe]
    #3864558 - 03/03/05 09:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Have any of you actually observed more pins from the bottom and sides of the tray when using a translucent container versus an opaque one? Light is only one of several pinning triggers, and I never seem to have this side fruiting problem with translucent containers. I think it may be a myth. I would like more proof.


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: ShroomGod]
    #3864635 - 03/03/05 09:34 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

hmm, a myth. I wish i could bust this one but the species i work with only fruit when cased so i dont worry about dark tubs.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


Teh=The

I need to proofread


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Invisibleagar
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: ShroomGod]
    #3864765 - 03/03/05 10:05 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

It's NO MYTH.

First go around with bulk sub & trays, I used ones that were semi-translucent & incubated on teirs of wire racks - one over the top of another. One tray contaminated after first flush & went to the garden compost pile (home for worn out casings). When I dumped it. There were massive gnarly shrooms - growing on thr BOTTOM of the substrate. All the translucent trays - did the same thing.

But, I had a light on each teir. So - there was a light source - underneath - each rack. But, I has placed a foot square thin black tile - over each buld, so - it did not reflect - upward.

Next crop, I used thick black busboy type trays that light couldn't shine through. When they were fruited out & dumped. No shrooms on the bottom of any of those substrate trays.


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: agar]
    #3864772 - 03/03/05 10:07 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Agar,
i meant to bust the doupts of shroomgod. he should know better


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


Teh=The

I need to proofread


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Invisibleagar
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: tahoe]
    #3864776 - 03/03/05 10:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

tahoe said:hmm, a myth. I wish i could bust this one but the species i work with only fruit when cased so i dont worry about dark tubs.




Don't grasp what you are saying. You case a bulk substrate in a clear tray & don't get side or bottom pinning?


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: agar]
    #3864783 - 03/03/05 10:09 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i dont grow cubes. I grow Portabellas, they require casing to fruit


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


Teh=The

I need to proofread


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OfflineShroomGod
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: tahoe]
    #3865320 - 03/03/05 11:52 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

agar, I have not observed bottom pins, but I never fruit on wire racks either. My semi-transparent trays fruit fine. There are sometimes some side pinning by the second flush (never the first), but I also observed side pinning using black containers too. Maybe the key is that I never fruit on wire racks, so light never gets on the bottom of the tray.

I think I'll put some duct tape around the sides of the tray and see if that reduces the side pins. I'll do two trays side-by-side to prove it to myself.


Edited by ShroomGod (03/03/05 11:54 PM)


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: ShroomGod]
    #3865374 - 03/04/05 12:06 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Pins on the bottom....a lil light tells them where to grow if i remeber correctly (:cuckoo: :rolleyes:), So isn't it logical that if light is present on the bottom then so should some pins?

I don't see how this is a myth lol, seems more like common sense, not trying to stomp on anyone or anything, just pointing out the obvious i guess. Well gl all...

-Gnostic


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OfflineShroomGod
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #3865488 - 03/04/05 12:30 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

OnlineIGnosticAbhorI, I am not sure what the sarcasm is about, but what you are saying is simplistic and incomplete. I recommend you purchase a copy of "The Mushroom Cultivator" by Paul Stamets. In chapter 9, "Strategies for Mushroom Formation (Pinhead Initiation)" Paul gives a good summary of the numerous triggers involved in pinhead initiation. One of those triggers is a lowering of the CO2 levels, and there isn't much gas exchange in the bottom of a deep tray. On the other hand, cubes seem to pin spanteonously and prolifically without any trigger other than nutrient limitation. In contrast to other mushrooms, it is possible that light alone could make the difference of a pin forming and one not, even without increased gas exchange. In other words, I am not doubting you, but I don't have direct experience with bottom-of-tray pins. I guess everyone here has tons of pins on the bottom of their trays. That's too bad. If I start to have that problem, I keep this thread in mind.


Edited by ShroomGod (03/04/05 12:33 AM)


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: ShroomGod]
    #3865506 - 03/04/05 12:35 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Yea, co2 is bad, correct, but that doesn't rule out the fact that some May form, i've seen unattended jars with some mushies on it and they were left alone for about a week w/o and exchanges of air...

But yea, i defiently agree with you there though, it would be a bit tough for mushies to form on the bottom, but i'd had it happen before :thumbup:, def. isn't fun, Especially when you miss them and they rot like agar said :frown:

And I've read that book before by the way :smile:, I was just stating that sometimes auh-non-muah-lees(shut up lol) happen, so taking a minor step like blocking out light from the bottom shouldn't be any biggy, but i donno' i dont id be a big deal unless you have them stacked like agar and had light all around, just my .02
Gl everyone

And Agar, sounds like you should do an experiment :smirk:

-Gnostic


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #3865975 - 03/04/05 02:52 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Dude, are you kidding, I get bottom pins all the time. I use clear casing containers. Hmm I dont have any good pics. I just harvested a casing the other day though, 2 quarts of rye/wbs/verm, besides the 14 grams on top, I had 16 grams on the bottom, not where the casing was, on the actual bottom. You could see the casing lifting up. I had one that was 7 inches long, spanning the casing container completly underneath.

However with slightly translucent, not such a big issue. I didnt have any problems with the white tub (dish tub such as mentioned) below, used for a few casings so far, no side or bottom pinning.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3866768 - 03/04/05 08:59 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

All theory, speculation, and stamets' books aside, long time growers all know that cubes will form fruitbodies on the sides and bottom if you use a translucent bin. Period. Other species may behave differently.

Agar, another good choice for bulk grows is the kitty litter boxes. They're cheap, about six inches deep and almost always a solid color, because nobody wants to look at their kitty's buried shit through the sides of the container.


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflinePooPs
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #3866876 - 03/04/05 10:01 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Well.. i've used plenty of clear " Sterlite " bins, i simply tape GLAD garbage bags on the outside, being clear, it's easy and simple to quickly remove the tape, check out the casing from all sides, make sure all is dandy, and put tape back on.

The R-maids always gave problems, they are pourous and always contamed on me. but the sterlite transparent bins are smooth plastic, easy to wash perfectly clean.

just my experience.


--------------------


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------------------


Pot Free for another : nevermind.. never made it..


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: ShroomGod]
    #3867114 - 03/04/05 11:33 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomGod said:
OnlineIGnosticAbhorI, I am not sure what the sarcasm is about, but what you are saying is simplistic and incomplete. I recommend you purchase a copy of "The Mushroom Cultivator" by Paul Stamets. In chapter 9, "Strategies for Mushroom Formation (Pinhead Initiation)" Paul gives a good summary of the numerous triggers involved in pinhead initiation. One of those triggers is a lowering of the CO2 levels, and there isn't much gas exchange in the bottom of a deep tray. On the other hand, cubes seem to pin spanteonously and prolifically without any trigger other than nutrient limitation. In contrast to other mushrooms, it is possible that light alone could make the difference of a pin forming and one not, even without increased gas exchange.




So since invitro jars do not allow for lowered co2 levels, all they have for triggering is light and temp drop, I think it is more then possible, it is a widly known fact.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineShroomGod
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Re: Elementary & Often Overlooked [Re: agar]
    #3867206 - 03/04/05 12:13 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

scatmanrav, you say you have observed that you do pin on the bottom in your semi-transparent trays. Has this been a problem for you? I used to use totally opaque trays, but I've started using these white translucent trays which are smaller. I am considering that maybe the side pinning I get with these trays could be reduced if I taped up the trays I use with duct tape. Is it worth the hassle?


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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