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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Why do you think Kerry lost?
    #3846382 - 02/28/05 01:44 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I think it happened because Bush pandered to blacks and Christians by bashing gay marriage somewhat. I also think that the "flip-flopper" attacks on Kerry by the Bush administration did sway some people.

And while it appears that Bush fucked up in Iraq, he had more of a plan and steadfastness than Kerry did.

When it came to Iraq the whole topic was pretty simple. We were in Iraq. Saddam had been deposed. The Iraqi's did not have a stable government anymore. America could do two different things:

1. We could leave and Iraq would descend into an even bigger bloodbath than it already was.

2. We could stay and try to build up a stable and prosperous Iraq.

Of course, nobody thinks we should do #1. Everybody thinks we should do #2. I think we should do #2 as well.

Kerry kind of alluded to maybe doing #2. He then mentioned that our allies would come to help us. BULLSHIT! The French and Germans didn't like the Iraq war. They don't like the Iraq occupation. They will never send a single troop to help us. No country is coming into Iraq to help us. They are only leaving. When Kerry made this suggestion he was either lying or engaging in wishful thinking.

If anybody is going to make #2 happen, it will be America and America alone. This means than more innocent Iraqi's will die and more American troops will die. This is the blunt reality in which we find ourselves.

I wanted to scream at both Bush and Kerry when the topic of Iraq came up. I wanted to yell at Bush, "The intelligence community under you fucked up and you fucked up. A lot of people have died because of you. Stop giving simplistic and canned answers. Stop sidestepping the questions and the issues. Tell us the truth". I wanted to yell at Kerry, "You're an idiot that has absolutely no plan for Iraq. The possible plans that you have mentioned will never come to fruition". Oh well....what are you gonna do....

It sure is great having only two real choices during election time.


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3846406 - 02/28/05 01:49 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

because the sheeple of america have bought the bush story hook
line and sinker.

praise jesus.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3846450 - 02/28/05 01:58 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Kerry was a joke, the American people saw through him. His only reason for running was on a "anyone but bush" agenda. The problem is is that he would say ANYTHING to make Bush look bad without giving actual ideas of how to solve problems. I'm convinced that all you need to do to be a liberal candidate is say that you will do something about (insert popular issue, health care, education etc.)and you will get almost half the votes with absolutely no plan whatsoever....God, it must be easy to live in a world with no ideas of how to solve problems.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3846490 - 02/28/05 02:06 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

In the end, I don't think Iraq had all that much to do with it.
I mean, as you point out, both candidates missed opportunities to capitalize on the situation over there... but they were both in difficult positions. I'll never forgive Bush for invading Iraq, but he must have known that deviating from those bullshit canned answers would have cost him a lot of ignorant votes. So strategically, it's hard to fault him there. His whole campaign was based on the idea that he was infallible.

Kerry on the other hand... It just took him way too long to develop his identity (or any identity). Just a shit choice for a presidential candidate. He was made to be a boring senator. Democrats in Iowa and New Hampshire should have smart enough to think back four years and not push for someone who had the same identity issues Al Gore went through. But in their defence, they really didn't have a good crop to pick from... Poll after poll after poll showed the same results: people weren't thrilled with Bush, but they had no idea what Kerry stood for. Kerry's campaign should have been smart enough to realize this in early 2004 and should have made it their top priority. Getting a clear message out. The slippery Karl Rove was smart enough to capitalize on this and soon had Bush using the term 'flip flopper' three times in every speech. And the election ended right there. And the swift boat thing too.

As for the candiadtes' actual platforms... those don't really seem to matter these days. So I'm sure both sides did a fine job there.

IMO, that was the 04 election in a nutshell.


--------------------
what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: Gijith]
    #3846542 - 02/28/05 02:15 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)


As for the candiadtes' actual platforms... those don't really seem to matter these days.

Sad but true.

By the way, thanks for the 5 rating.  I will now proceed to give you a 5 rating.  If there was an ass-kissing smiley, I would insert it into the post right here.  :smirk:


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3846593 - 02/28/05 02:22 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

there is.. :kiss: :ass:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: Gijith]
    #3846602 - 02/28/05 02:22 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

As I was rating you, I found this quote from you from another thread.


My parents walked in on me several times during high school.

There was this one time...
My grandmother had died and we were staying in Manhattan, at her apartment, while we made funeral arrangements. And one night, my mom came walked into her mom's old bedroom and found me jacking off in my dead grandmother's bed.

Probably the most shameful moment in my life."


:rotfl:

I hope you can laugh about that now.


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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3846906 - 02/28/05 03:29 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Kerry lost because he wasn't conservative enough.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3846929 - 02/28/05 03:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Kerry also allied himself with some extreme Left people and groups. While the extreme Left is prevalent in the media and certain segments of society, there is enough of a conserative base in this country that he ended up alienating a lot of people.

Kerry picked the wrong allies, friends, and people to be seen with.


Edited by RandalFlagg (02/28/05 04:47 PM)


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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3847163 - 02/28/05 04:32 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

That's too bad for the libertines.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3847452 - 02/28/05 05:37 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

the answer to the title ? becomes painfully clear after briefly canvassing the AOL message boards..and also from ann coulters' obscenely large audience...and kerry was no top-notch campaigner either...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Offlineblaze2
The Witness
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Registered: 12/20/02
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Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3847634 - 02/28/05 06:09 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

(in my best bush impression)

Da electrik' vote.



No seriously tho, Kerry lost because bush out campaigned him, it had nothing to do with "America seeing right through him" as Invertigo said. Because most of america(especially the redneck idiots that won bush the election) are not that smart. Now Bush ran a better campaign, and in our world of commercials and advertising bush simply did a better job. Kind of a scary thought isnt it? that the country's future was decided by the packaging and not the content. sad but true

peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinemxdrk
searching forsomething
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Registered: 07/19/04
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Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: blaze2]
    #3847962 - 02/28/05 07:10 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I think it is partially that Americans are convinced that if you don't vote Rep or Dem that you are throwing your votes away. We fail to realize that if we vote whatever party we feel closest too then the Republican or Democratic party will not always win. Also it could be that Bush appealed to conservative America and out campaigned Kerry. And if maybe 90% of population voted there may have been a difference.


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3847995 - 02/28/05 07:18 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I find it funny that the most common answer is something along the lines of "because people are stupid" or "because they bought into the lies" or "it was all the campaigning and commercials...brainwashing, man"

The irony is that this is the attitude that lost the election. The dems all had this attitude like they simply deserved to be in power and they had no need to explain their plan for presidency...because anyone who didn't vote for them was just a stupid redneck who doesn't deserve any input.

Blacks came out in record numbers for Bush simply because they are sick of being used as examples of failure.

I will also give all you out-of-touch dems another tip. "Values" had nothing to do with christian extremism as the dems are so fond of pushing. It was all about the flip-flopping and pandering. Example: The dems thought SS reform was a good idea when Clinton talked about it, now it is their political "hill to die on". Its all about politics to them and not about what they think is right. Its all about political games and people don't like that..but hey, don't listen to me, just keep listening to the dems excuses and calling people stupid and keep the republicans in power through 2012.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: Catalysis]
    #3848004 - 02/28/05 07:20 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

The Democrats are in serious trouble. They complain, are not proactive, and offer no solutions to any problems. That is why they have no political momentum right now.


Edited by RandalFlagg (02/28/05 07:31 PM)


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
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Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3848046 - 02/28/05 07:27 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

IMO it was over after the "Reporting For Duty Salute"


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3848078 - 02/28/05 07:31 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)


IMO it was over after the "Reporting For Duty Salute"

Yep....

Don't play up being a war hero when you came home and decried your fellow servicemen for being war criminals.


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OfflineCatalysis
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Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3848110 - 02/28/05 07:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Exactly. I try to tell people why the party is floundering because I think we need at least 2 strong parties, if not more, and I would like the opportunity to vote democrat someday...but then they just call me a sheep and a stupid red-neck for questioning their "superior" political strategies. I would hate to see this simple stubborn attitude become the downfall of a much needed liberal party in the US.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: Catalysis]
    #3848461 - 02/28/05 08:37 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Kerry lost because he was a gold plated phony, in spades, with sprinkles on top.
Gijith: I like you but if you still can't see that you were wrong on Iraq you are pretty much hopeless.
Randall: Kerry's refusal to release his records was very damaging and he still hasn't done it, in spite of his vow on national radio (Imus) to do so soon. This makes most people who think wonder about what he has to hide.
Both candidates were on the same side on gay marriage. Don't forget, it was the decision of a liberal Mass judge that even made this an issue.
It is utterly ridiculous to assume that every attack on Kerry originated in the Bush administration. I am not a member of the Bush administration and I very much wanted to see his reelection. I am much smarter than almost all of you and I very much resent being told that only idiots support Bush. How stupid do we look now? What with Afghanistan elections, Iraq elections, Libya capitulation, Syria retreat, Egypt going multi-party and actual hope (crossed fingers) that humans lead in the PA?


A Northeastern liberal will never, NEVER, be president. Notice how the Hildabeast is trying to position herself, boys and girls, and learn from your mistress.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: Why do you think Kerry lost? [Re: Catalysis]
    #3848494 - 02/28/05 08:42 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

why do we need two strong parties? IMO its almost like two similar gangs. and the Democrats being the worst gang.

if the democrats split-up (implode) and we end up with 3 or 4 strong parties, would we have to stop the electoral college. i am for states rights and would not want to see the electoral college go.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Edited by lonestar2004 (02/28/05 09:00 PM)


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