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InvisibleSmushroom
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New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think*
    #3748990 - 02/08/05 01:57 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Ok, I haven't seen this posted in any of the casing or PMP posts that I have read so I think it is atleast semi-original. I have been wanting to do casings but I was going to have a problem with heating the fruiting chamber. Someone suggested just using a PMP and adding a heater in the geolite. So I started reading all the posts I could find on the PMP.

From what I have read the main benefits of the PMP are the air exchange, the wicking properties of the geolite to move moisture into the cakes, and the maintaining of the humidity. Not to mention, it is almost maintainence free. It is IDEAL for fruiting cakes.

When you use a PMP to do casings you eliminate one benefit (the wicking action of the geolite) and possibly have problems with anotehr benefit (maintaining the humidity). I thought about it for a while.

If you completely cover the geolite with square or rectangular casings (like most are) you maximize the growing space however you will limit the amount of humidity supplied by the geolite and it may require you to mist.

If you put some sort of tray/rack system like baking cooling trays in there you can suspend the casings a couple inches above the geolite and still maximize the space usage. However this may keep the humidity in the high 90s (which some say isn't bad, others say is). Also, if you have a short container, you can't really raise it too much.

Both of these keep the geolite from being able to wick water into the casings. Casings have a tendency to dry out a little unless misted. This probably wouldn't be a problem if the humidity was in the high 90s but if you set it all on the geolite it could be a problem. To solve this I thought about putting holes in the bottom of the casing trays but I didn't think that would help much.

I thought about just leaving 1-2 inches between each casing so that the humidity could come up, would also let the mushies have more room to grow. This would balance the humidity I think. However still doesn't take advantage of the geolite fully.

I thought about casing the bottom of the pan and birthing the casing directly on the geolite. This would let the water move into the casing but would leave the sides uncased and would probably make pins appear more on the sides than the top.

(Yeah I know this post is getting long, so here is my idea.)

My solution was this:



They are cake rings used for baking. They are stainless steel, heat and dishwasher safe, come in different sizes, and are open on the top and bottom.

My idea is to get rings that are just big enough to fit in the container and leave 1 inch on all sides. I was going to buy new containers but I happen to have some that are 14x28 at the bottom, roughly. So I will get 12" cake rings that are 3" deep and put 2 casings in there. This will allow a little space between the casing and the walls. The roundness of the cake rings means there will be more area of exposed geolite to provide humidity.

I plan to put each cake ring on a tray of some kind, can find cheap sturdy plastic pretty easily, cut to 12"x12" (for 12" rings). Crumble enough cakes or WBS into the bottom to give it 1.5-2" of substrate, then put .5"-.75" of casing mix on top. I will then cover the entire tray with Al foil. If you put a big piece over the cake ring, pull it down, and fold under the tray will keep the tray centered. I will incubate the casings until they are ready to fruit.

When ready to fruit I will remove the foil and slide the casing (still in the cake ring) directly onto the geolite. This will allow it to get moisture from the geolite and keep the sides free from light so there won't be pinning on them.

I should be able to put 4 cakes in a casing and have 2 casing in the pod. If I would have just used cakes I would be able to fit about 10 in there, 2x5. Will 2 casings with 2" of substrate (4 cakes) produce more than 10 uncased cakes? Do you think that the ability to absorb water from the geolite will be beneficial to the casing?

Good idea or waste of time?


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InvisibleSmushroom
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: Smushroom]
    #3753307 - 02/08/05 11:45 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

No comments at all?


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OfflineLaughingJim
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: Smushroom]
    #3753362 - 02/08/05 11:52 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I think I get it...

The cake sits inside the empty ring, with a thin layer of geo.

While on the other side of the ring, there is a layer that is 2 inches deep, from the ring to the four walls.

Like digging a hole and throwing up a retainer wall to hold back the dirt.

It took me about two seconds to realize that this was a hole, when you said you were going to get "More room" by using the ring... Originally I was thinking that it was going to hold a tray up in the air, giving less room.

Sounds like a plan Hannable! "The-A-Team" :smile:

If I am wrong... let me live in the glory of thinking I was right! :smile:

DAMN, I was way off! "Ace Ventura"

This holds up the tray, giving you the full 12X12 surface area, instead of the normal 12X12 minus the 10X10 tray area... Now I get it... so you will have less room, hight wise. (I misunderstood your "More room" for height, not width.)

Sounds even better. (Remember, even stainless steel can rust if it sits in acidic water.) CO2 water = carbonic acid water. Just a word of caution.


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Edited by LaughingJim (02/08/05 11:58 PM)


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: LaughingJim]
    #3753801 - 02/09/05 01:12 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Basically the whole post says:

"I want to take these ring things and put them on top of the geolite and then put the casings on top of that. I feel this will let the casings get humidity better since the casings sitting directly on the geolite block alot of the air flow, especially if you have solid casing containers along the bottom, not much airspace in between."

If I got it correctly that is. If I did, this doesnt seem like itll do you any good..


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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InvisibleSmushroom
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3754184 - 02/09/05 02:23 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

scatman has the concept right.

It will be a casing without a bottom on the pan. The rings will just hold the sides of the casing together.

The blocking the airflow won't be much of a problem. Normal cakes in a PMP will let humidity stay 95%+. If you use square casings there is very little room between the casings for air flow and humidity exchange, so you have to mist sometimes.

If you use circular casings instead of square casings you can fit in the same number but it will take up less area. Instead of taking up 8x8= 64 in^2 it takes up pi4^2 = 50 in^2. This should allow enough air exchange and water vapor to keep the chamber between 80-90% humidity, optimal for casings.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: Smushroom]
    #3754273 - 02/09/05 02:47 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Your worrying WAY to much about the air flow. It finds a way and if you use circle rather then square you have less surface area which means less mushrooms. The airflow isnt SO hugly important. It'll find its way up through the cracks among the casings.

And are you talking about the casing with no casing container? So just like a big cake sitting on the rings? That wouldnt be as good for sure, the container helps hold in the moisture. I may have misinterpreted this "It will be a casing without a bottom on the pan"


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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InvisibleSmushroom
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3756000 - 02/09/05 02:45 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I am not worrying so much about air flow, I know it doesn't matter. The point of using a circle was to balance the humidity. But either of these is secondary to what I wanted to talk about in this post.

The rings don't have a top or a bottom, just sides. The casing would be IN the rings, not ON the rings. So basically a round casing with no top and no bottom, just sides. So the casing will be sitting directly on the geolite, just like cakes would. There would be no bottom casing layer, so it would be geolite, substrate, casing in that order. The substrate should absorb moisture directly from the geolite like cakes do when they are sitting on it. I think this helps moisture more than having a bottom to keep it in, it should keep adding moisture, not just holding what is already in there.

The only point of using the rings, is so the casing will have sides and will only fruit out of the top.


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OfflineVALIS
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: Smushroom]
    #3757526 - 02/09/05 07:25 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Reading your original post in this thread was weird, 'cuz it was like reading the _exact_ same thought process in my own head over the last couple weeks concerning the very same issues - as I'm developing a sort of tricked out "Mini-PMP" for a distant friend of mine. I duly marked this coincidence up as another fine example of Jung's synchronicity and the collective unconscious mind of humanity!

Anyhow, enough cheesy metaphysics - onward:

Aside from a couple unique particulars , you and I came to the same conclusion - only with a slightly different implementation:

Quote:

Smushroom said:The only point of using the rings, is so the casing will have sides and will only fruit out of the top.




Rather than using metal pie rings as you described - hmmm, hadn't though of that - I had come up instead with simply cutting the bottom out from a standard plastic casing tray, such as a tupperware or one of those simple, smallish glad plastic bins.

I'd also come up with a more complicated idea - which is still kinda bouncing around in my head, despite the fact that it's completely over-engineered, and I daresay even borders on the absurd... but I'll lay it out anyhow, if for no other reason than some comedy relief:

Cut the bottom out of a standard plastic casing tray, only slightly smaller than the actual bottom - leaving a sort of lip... by which to then place an appropriately sized piece of mesh into the tray. The surrounding, inward-protruding outer rim of the the bottom "lip" would keep the mesh from just falling right through the tray. The purpose for the mesh bottom is to provide as much exposure as possible for the moisturizing wisking effect of the geolite/bubbler/water combo below. A normal, rational, person would probably just poke holes in the bottom of their casing tray.

But wait! ... there's more!

That's just step one, in my two-step patented idea of Ultimate Awesomeness!

Step two is to then _suspend_ the casing tray/s about 1/2" to 1" _above_ the geolite. Have I gone mad yet? The purpose of the suspension is to keep as much total uncovered surface area as possible for the geolite to do its thing: provide plenty of humidity and air exchange. The casings would be suspended by putting two strong but thin metal rods horizontal and pararell into the chamber, spaced just far enough apart from each other to allow the tray to fit snuggly between - using the upper outward protruding lips of the casing tray ( where the lid attaches ) to stay suspended.

The idea behind all this was to come up with a way to facilitate the highest amount of moisture wisking action into the bottom of the casing/s, while still providing for the greatest amount of free, uncovered surface area for the geolite in order to maintain optimal air exchange and humidity throughut the grow chamber.

I am determined to make this work.

But that doesn't necessarily mean I'll be taking myself seriously while attempting to do so... <grin>


Side note. The whole purpose behind this "Mini-PMP" is thusly:

To design an entirely self-contained, conviently stealthy, small form factor PMP, fully automated, in such a manner and with such a Tek as necessary to provide the greatest yield-to-space possible, including a simple method/process by which to keep the grow cycle constant and perpetual with little hassle.

This thing isn't for someone who wants massive amounts of shrooms, martha style - but is aimed at providing a reliably constant yeild enough for enthusiasticly regular personal use, with extra for friends and occasional barter or what-not.

Of course this would only be used for growing shitake mushrooms. Or by people who live in areas where other sorts of mushrooms are considered legal. Such as within one's own home.


--------------------
Nature is the Technology of the Divine.


Edited by VALIS (02/09/05 08:17 PM)


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InvisibleSmushroom
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: VALIS]
    #3758322 - 02/09/05 09:54 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Glad someone had the same idea. I do see a problem with your second idea. If you suspend your cakes with a mesh bottom, the water will eventually drain out and they would dry up. While there is no standing water in the bottom it is like hanging a semi-wet rag on a hanger. There may be no puddle of water coming from it, but it will eventually start to drip, even if only a drop every 5 minutes. Your casing will dry out. Putting mesh on the bottom and suspending it will not help with getting moisture from the geolite. There is no water vapor coming from it, it just slowly evaps into the terrarium.

Mesh isn't a bad idea, but suspending it with a mesh bottom is. Now you can suspend a casing with a bottom and get more humidity from the geolite, but it isn't necessary, the optimal humidity for a casing is 80-90% which can easily be achieved with putting a casing with a bottom directly on the geolite.


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InvisibleSmushroom
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: Smushroom]
    #3758330 - 02/09/05 09:56 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Anyway, I have a friend that is going to try and set up a few PMPs. I am going to see if they will do one with cakes, one with casings normally, and one with casing in cake rings to see the yield per cake and the yield per container to see which comes out best. Will try and get pics as well.


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OfflineVALIS
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: Smushroom]
    #3758898 - 02/09/05 11:32 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smushroom said:
Glad someone had the same idea. I do see a problem with your second idea. If you suspend your cakes with a mesh bottom, the water will eventually drain out and they would dry up.




Hmmm... I had not considered that possibility. I must ponder this further... (c8=


Could anyone else verify this? ( not that I totally doubt you, just like to have a second opinion on the matter )

The geolite wisking action only works if the casing/cakes are sitting directly on the geolite itself?

Would the suspended casing w/ mesh bottom really loose water from below even in a highly humidified environment?

But if what you say is true, then how is it that the wisking effect takes place at all? I thought the wisking was due to the ambient rH factor which the geolite helps produce.

I guess I definitely need to reread how the geolite/bubbler works.

Does water actualy trickle up from the geolite and bead up at the top? And from there, gets sucked into the cake/casing? In which case suspending the casing, even just half-inch, up from the geolite would fail to benefit from extra moisture introduction into the casing via wisking.


Quote:

Mesh isn't a bad idea




Yeah, I wanted a way to separate the casing from the geolite for convience and cleaning purposes. Mesh seemed even better than merely sticking holes in the bottom of the casing tray.


--------------------
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InvisibleSmushroom
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: VALIS]
    #3759043 - 02/09/05 11:58 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

It is wicking action, not wisking. The real name for it is capillary action. It is how a candle wick works. Small narrow passageways, like those in string (wick) will "suck up" liquid when heated. The molten wax of a candle is "sucked" to the top of the wick then burned without the wick itself burning (except minimally). Geolite is a holey substance like lava rock. The narrow passageways in the geolite work like a wick, they slowly suck up water. There are no water beads, it doesn't push it out the top. It just stays saturated. As the casing/cake becomes less than saturated it will "suck" the water into itself.

*forgot that capillary action is how plant roots work as well

The humidity comes from slow evaporation. Airflow speeds up evaporation, that is why humidifiers have a fan, it speeds up evaporation and thus increases humidity. The bubbler does the same thing. Increases airflow, thus increases humidity. The geolite just helps hold the water closer to the surface so it evaps faster. The main purpose is to wick water into the cakes.


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: Smushroom]
    #3759726 - 02/10/05 01:51 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

It sounded like a good idea at first, but suspending it is a bit extreme and mesh isn't such a bad idea but I'd rather just let them collect moisture in the bottom so the substrate would be moist in the middle....And i've seen people turn casings into Huge crazy looking cakes...Just some fyi, anyways I just wanted to say that I agree with smushroom(for ur second opinion), and that damn, you should read about  a lot of other things on this site, def. seems like you have what it takes to do a tek, might need to read a bit more, but you're def. headed the right way. :thumbup:...Gl...

And i'm doing a PmP soon, feels good to know that people are trying to critique it in anyway possible :thumbup

-Gnostic


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OfflineVALIS
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: Smushroom]
    #3759780 - 02/10/05 02:00 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks a ton for that response - I have a much clearer idea of how the pmp works now. Much appreciated!

... however, being the stubborn fool that I am - and remember I said I was determined to make this work - here's a slight mod to my orginal master plan of super awesomeness:

Keep the whole thing as advertised - suspended casing trays w/ mesh bottoms and all - only now we insert a number of thin, hollow plastic tubings about half-way into the geolite and a just under the surface of the bottom casing... what's the likeness of the casing drawing up water in a setup such as that? Remember there's only 1/2" to 1" space between geolite and casing bottom.

Whether there's any point to all this is completely aside from the issue! <grin>


--------------------
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Edited by VALIS (02/10/05 02:03 AM)


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InvisibleSmushroom
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: VALIS]
    #3759906 - 02/10/05 02:32 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I doubt that would work either. Think about taking the smallest plastic tube and putting it in water. Will it suck it up? No. Think about how thin the fibers of a wick are? (made of string)

You could put a piece of twine in there to suck up the water, but it would hold contams. Also, having the entire bottom on the geolite means the entire bottom sucks up water, not just a few holes.

Also, have you built a PMP yet? If you put full casing on top of the geolite you are still going to get a RH of 80% or higher which is enough for casings. The problem with casings is that the tops dry out, even in high humidity. Only real way to fix it is with misting. I am hoping to avoid that. Even if you keep a RH of 99% your cakes will dry out on top without a secondary water source.

I still don't think you understand how capillary action works. Do a search on google for it. There isn't a feasible way for you to get water from the geolite into your cakes if they are suspended above it.

Another problem for you. If the bottom is exposed like that it will get light. It won't get much, but it will get some. That means that there will be pins forming under the mesh. You will have to remove them or they will abort and decomp causing contams to set in.

Suspending the cakes is a bad idea.


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OfflineVALIS
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #3759977 - 02/10/05 02:51 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

IGnosticAbhorI said:
anyways I just wanted to say that I agree with smushroom(for ur second opinion), and that damn, you should read about a lot of other things on this site, def. seems like you have what it takes to do a tek, might need to read a bit more, but you're def. headed the right way.




Thanks for the kind words! Very cool.


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OfflineVALIS
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: Smushroom]
    #3760134 - 02/10/05 03:35 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smushroom said:
Suspending the cakes is a bad idea.




BaH!

This can work... I've never been more certain of anything in my whole life! Mark my words - as sure as shroommachine can pull off turning the floor of his 60sq. ft. closet into a massive bulk casing, I can get a suspended casing successfully producing beautiful yeilds.

Never underestimate the power of sheer folly!

<grinz>





Quote:

Also, have you built a PMP yet?




What does that have to do with anything?

Heh - I'm joking; I've never really built one in actual, physical reality yet - but I've built it in my brain and somewhat on paper, so that's a start at least. Now I'm just kinda at the point of some idle speculation of various crazy ideas, before I actually get down to building something I know will work.

At any rate, all joking aside - I do realize the extreme unlikeliness of this ever actualy working, and if it somehow does - that the effort and hoops necessary to go through to get it setup in this fashion will doubtfully be worthwhile. But it's fun to dream stuff up... (c8=

Many thanks for humoring me, and helping me iron out the kinks!

Additionaly, I'm still stoked on my mini-pmp... the whole suspended casings idea isn't an entirely crucial function.


Quote:

If you put full casing on top of the geolite you are still going to get a RH of 80% or higher which is enough for casings.




Depends on the strain - and the specific parameters of the rest of the setup. I want a higher rH and I'll be introducing a greater amount of air circulation periodically with a small fan on a timer.


Quote:

I still don't think you understand how capillary action works. Do a search on google for it. There isn't a feasible way for you to get water from the geolite into your cakes if they are suspended above it.




You're right that I need to understand capillary action better - I'll definitetly do some research. However I'm still not (entirely) convinced that there isn't a feasible way to continualy feed a sufficient amount of water (perhaps w/ extra nutes) into a suspended casing.

Regarding the issue with pins forming on the bottom of the casing -- that is something I had definitely taken into consideration. It's just a lesser concern at the moment; because if the suspended casing thing doesn't work, then the problem of rogue pins peaking from under the casing will solve itself!

Beers!


--------------------
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Edited by VALIS (02/10/05 03:37 AM)


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OfflineLaughingJim
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: VALIS]
    #3761624 - 02/10/05 02:05 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I still don't get the point...

I understand the setup... it is a cased/cake resting on perlite with walls.

That defeats the purpose of the case, doesn't it?

Only cakes need 90%-95% RH, if they don't sit directly on perlite.
Cases only need 75%-85% RH, the rest of the moisture comes directly from the case.

(NOTE: Some may be slightly higher or lower depending on desires, but for the most part this is ball-park.)

I think you may be over-thinking this. How would you incubate a case with no bottom? (You know that you have to incubate after you case, before you put in in the incubator right.)


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OfflineVALIS
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: LaughingJim]
    #3763451 - 02/10/05 08:11 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LaughingJim said:
I still don't get the point...




Heheh -- I'm sure many others are scratching their heads also.

My main purpose when responding to Smushroom's post was just to give him a friendly heads-up that at least one other person was on the same page with his thinking, and also to see what he thought of the plastic tray casing w/ mesh bottom setup, rather than the bottomless pie tray method he was considering. Just for kicks I thought I'd throw out the suspended casings thing I was dreaming up... even though that might have been better off in a new thread - didn't mean to thread-jack!


Quote:

I understand the setup... it is a cased/cake resting on perlite with walls.

That defeats the purpose of the case, doesn't it?




I'm trying to extend the life of the casing even further, through wicking action of the geolite ( won't be using perlite ). I believe this is what Smushroom is up to as well.

I'm trying to get the most of what's great about the PMP, and refine it for casings. Remember that the Pod was designed specificaly for cakes. Then Magash ( I believe it was ) "backwards engineered" the Pod, to make the PMP. But the PMP is generally larger than the Pod, and so can easily accomodate casings as well as cakes. What I'm trying to do (in part), is to get the most out of the PMP, only customized specifically for casings rather than for cakes ( which is just one of the requirements concieved for my "mini-pmp" ). This is why I want to utilize the extra wicking effect of the geolite... why waste that particular attribute of the PMP when cultivating w/ a casing rather than a cake? Why not figure out a way of effectively introducing a more constant supply of extra moisture into the casing, rather than strictly through the casing's initial moisture supply?

My theory is that the introduction of wicking will increase the flush-life of the casing. So that would be the point of all this. Only, I'm exploring things quite abit off into the realm of mad science with my whole suspended casing plan... I totally admit that it's a quack idea and probably doomed to failure, though that's not gonna stop me from trying -- however, I'm still adamant about experimenting with ways of greatly expanding the life of a single casing via some form of external capillary action, even if that means simply by sitting a casing with a mesh bottom directly on the geolite. After I can get that working, I'm interested in figuring out how to get nutrient-rich water/moisture into the casing as well, through the same mechanism.


Quote:

I think you may be over-thinking this. How would you incubate a case with no bottom? (You know that you have to incubate after you case, before you put in in the incubator right.)




Heh - yeah, while I can't speak for Smushroom, I can certainly say for myself that I'm way over-thinking this... as I've already admitted. I'll either laugh at myself when it fails to do anything significant, or I'll laugh with triumph if it actualy works as planned! Either way, I'm laughing. (c8=

As far as the incubation goes - yes, I'm aware of the necessity, and I've already facilitated/planned for the incubation process: bulk-spawn incubation, as well as post-casing/pre-pinning incubation/recovery - these will both be done from within the "mini-pmp", when it's time to pin, the heater goes off, some extra cold sterile water goes in, and the bubbler goes on.

First off, remember that my casing tray won't be bottomless - it'll have a mesh bottom, that way it can still be picked up when necessary.

Secondly, my whole "mini-pmp" idea revolves around three major requirements: it must be fully automated; it must implement both a tek method and pmp design which will produce the greatest results possible in the smallest space possible; and the whole thing must be entirely self-contained, using one unit for all stages of cultivation ( preparation/inoculation and drying are currently exempt from this requirement, for obvious reasons ). There's a secondary, superflous "requirement" that it must look cool also... (c8=

So with all that being said, to answer your question regarding incubation, my "mini-pmp" simply transmogrifies from incubator to growth chamber - which isn't really a new idea.



The whole purpose behind this "Mini-PMP" is thusly:

To design an entirely self-contained, conviently stealthy, small form factor PMP, fully automated, in such a manner and with such a Tek as necessary to provide the greatest yield-to-space possible, including a simple method/process by which to keep the grow cycle constant and perpetual with little hassle.


Criteria #1: Full-Automation, is why I'm springboarding w/ the PMP design.

Criteria #2: Greatest results possible in the smallest space possible, is why I'm using bulk-substrate w/ casings, and why I'm so interested in keeping the casing as moist as possible - I want to see lots of flushes. ( And also why the tek will focus on pan. cyans - they're small, but potent - which accomodates the "mini-pmp" theme quite well. An oz of healthy(potent) pan cyans is worth 2 ozs of cubies, imho. And also why I want higher humidity output, 'cuz cyans are very sensitive to C02, so I'll be introducing a small fan to increase air-circulation, which would reduce humidity if not properly compensated for.)

Criteria #3: Fully self-contained, is why the mini-pmp will act as both incubator and gc. Under the geolite, along with the bubbler/s, will be a submersible heater. I've even got a (disingenious) way to cold-shock within the same unit when it's time to initiate pinning.


To sum up, what I'm trying to do is refine the PMP specificaly, and especialy for casings - and extending that even further to a particular tek process, coupled with a highly specialized/focused PMP design which I've already described, which for lack of a better term I'm currently referring to as the "Mini-PMP". I'll give it a name upgrade if it actualy works!

I must point out that I will not actualy be doing any of the growing - I'm just designing this for an acquaintance who lives in a country where growing mushrooms is legal.


Beers!


--------------------
Nature is the Technology of the Divine.


Edited by VALIS (02/10/05 08:19 PM)


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OfflineLaughingJim
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Re: New Casing Idea for PMP *I Think* [Re: VALIS]
    #3763941 - 02/10/05 09:30 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Understood, Grow-on!

I retired from OTA (Over Thinkers Anon...)

I am now upgraded to KISS (Keep It Simple Simon) :smile:

As I understand, the reason that this whole growing process was originally seporated into two halves, Incubation and Fruiting, was to extend the ability to produce more with less contamination.

EG, If this were prepared with only one step going from inoculation to the fruitng-end with one giant mix of substrate... Instead of one lump sum going bad at the point of incubation, and having to throw out all your hard work. You now only have to deal with a small quantity of substrate that is nutrient rich, in a super sterile environment which has the greatest chance of going bad. Then you can move those that survive into a less sterile, mostly nutrient devoid environment, (Fruiting chamber), once the cake was established.

Now, there is the third method which goes backwards in time called Caseing. Here we re-introduce an established survivor into a slightly less nutrient free substrate, with the same sterile methods as used with a cake. Although there are less nutrients, these nutrients we add are less favorable to contamination, but not resistant, as a cake would be. So we reincubate that to let the established culture re-establish even more before we introduce it to the less sterile fruiting chamber environment. (Some fruiting chambers are now becomming as sterile as the incuabtion/inoculation areas, but over-all they will always be less sterile since fresh air is needed, and no filter exists that is 100% effective.)

Still sounds like fun to try.

(I am a professional mold grower, don't ask!)


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