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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Israel, The 51st State
    #3745362 -

So what's really up with the Israelo-American relations? Why is it that the US is such a big supporter of the Israeli state?
There ain't much oil there, ain't many consumers there, not many Christians either...

The only real explanation I see is that America has a large Jew minority within its population...but hey, America also has a large hispanic minority who mostly originate from Mexico, but I don't see Mexico getting extra favors from the US like Israel does.

So what's the REAL explanation?


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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: exclusive58]
    #3745392 -

The United States has a history of enjoying throwing gas on a brush fire.

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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: exclusive58]
    #3745410 -

The Jews are God's chosen people. That's the only reason I see, oh and perhaps it makes a good hub militarily since all the countries in the region feel the need to kill all those who don't believe the same religion. But this is just a guess mind you.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: exclusive58]
    #3745442 -

Several reasons in my opinion....

1. There is a large and powerful Jewish population and lobby in the U.S.

2. Israel is a stable and healthy democracy in the Middle East. I think that U.S. policy-makers like having a "friend" in that part of the world who can give us intelligence and stuff like that.

3. By giving Israel military aid we make them strong. As long as they are strong the Arabs won't attack them. If the Arabs don't attack them then peace is maintained in the area. When peace is maintained in the area, that means that the oil will continue to flow.

I disagree with foreign aid. I say let people fend for themselves. I also think it was very stupid to ally ourselves with a tiny little country that doesn't give us much stuff, give them a bunch of money and unconditional diplomatic support, and all of the while earn the hatred of a billion Muslims around the world. It doesn't make too much sense. When you get involved in foreign entanglements you always end up making enemies.

When you get involved in foreign stuff it should be because it is to your advantage....not to your disadvantage. Support of Israel is a liability for America. For all of the shit we go through because of Israel, we don't get enough in return from them.

But of course America can't stop aid to Israel now. It would be a sign of weakness and retreat to the Arab world. Strength is one of the few things that seems to be respected over there in that part of the world.

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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: exclusive58]
    #3745629 -

For the evangelical right which spear-heads U.S. support for Israel, the Jewish Nation must remain more powerful than the Arabs/Muslims in order for the second coming of Christ to be possible.


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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3745674 -

It became US government policy to support Israel long before any "evangelical right" was in power.



Phred


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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: Phred]
    #3745861 -

Phred said:
It became US government policy to support Israel long before any "evangelical right" was in power.



Phred


Incorrect.


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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3745923 -

zahudulallah said:
Phred said:
It became US government policy to support Israel long before any "evangelical right" was in power.



Phred


Incorrect.


Would you consider JFK to be part of the "evangelical right"?


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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: Silversoul]
    #3745930 -

We like Israel, because they thankfully police the middle east to an extent.


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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #3745948 -

blacksabbathrulz said:
We like Israel, because they thankfully police the middle east to an extent.


Well...no. Unless you consider occupying a land that doesn't belong to you and suppressing dissent to be "policing."


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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: Silversoul]
    #3745970 -

Paradigm said:
blacksabbathrulz said:
We like Israel, because they thankfully police the middle east to an extent.


Well...no. Unless you consider occupying a land that doesn't belong to you and suppressing dissent to be "policing."


What are you talking about? Israel rightfully owns the land known as Israel.


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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #3745985 -

blacksabbathrulz said:
Paradigm said:
blacksabbathrulz said:
We like Israel, because they thankfully police the middle east to an extent.


Well...no. Unless you consider occupying a land that doesn't belong to you and suppressing dissent to be "policing."


What are you talking about? Israel rightfully owns the land known as Israel.


That's debatable. However, it does not rightfully own the West Bank and Gaza Strip, yet it has troops occupying those areas.


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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: exclusive58]
    #3745988 -

The United States refuses to stand by and watch fascist thugs yet again exterminate huge numbers of Jews. In the 30s and 40s it was the Nazis. After 1948 it was the Arabs. If the UN grants Israel a state in Palestine and then stands by and allows their neighbors who vastly out number them to destroy them, they have essentially created a large concentration camp. Further, the extent of US aid to Israel has by and large been limited to money and material. They supply all of their own soldiers. And those soldiers beat the living shit out of the vastly wealthier and more numerous Arabs who invaded them. The time for debating support for Israel was immediately after WW2. That debate over, it's now, and has been, time to make sure that we are not just rounding them up in one place so they can be chewed up in one bite size piece.

Do not overestimate how much concrete support we have given Israel. No American soldier was ever sent there to fight. And never underestimate the impact of the cold war with the USSR. It was very much in our interests to have a counterbalance to the proximate enemy that was the Soviet Union. That the benighted forces of Islamofascism were so inept that with over 10 to 1 population AND resource advantage they failed in their murderous attempts is a credit to the tenacity and valor of the Jews, something Americans admire by definition.


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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: Silversoul]
    #3746012 -

Paradigm said:
zahudulallah said:
Phred said:
It became US government policy to support Israel long before any "evangelical right" was in power.



Phred


Incorrect.


Would you consider JFK to be part of the "evangelical right"?


Yes. The evagelical rigt consists of both Democratic and Republican parties. While both may differ socially and fiscally, both are held by the status quo that America is a nation under God. The Christian God that is.


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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3746022 -

zahudulallah said:
Paradigm said:
zahudulallah said:
Phred said:
It became US government policy to support Israel long before any "evangelical right" was in power.



Phred


Incorrect.


Would you consider JFK to be part of the "evangelical right"?


Yes. The evagelical rigt consists of both Democratic and Republican parties. While both may differ socially and fiscally, both are held by the status quo that America is a nation under God. The Christian God that is.


You have a strange definition of evangelical.


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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: Silversoul]
    #3746072 -

ss7, I associate the word with Protestant influence. Unprecedented influence of Protestant Christianity in the United States, Red state or Blue. In America I imagine you associate it with Mid-Westerners. I assure you, the Church goers are at the bottom of the chain here. But can you honestly imagine an America that is eradicated of religion in politics. I can't. If there was such a thing, billions wouldn't be shelled out to Israel at the whim of a hat.


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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3746084 -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law


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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3746128 -

A child's argument. Godwin's law does not apply to a historical discussion of the state of Israel


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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3746167 -

Making references to Nazis to strengthen your point is a child's argument. It's the very foundation of Godwin's Law.

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Re: Israel, The 51st State [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3746169 -

zappaisgod said:
A child's argument. Godwin's law does not apply to a historical discussion of the state of Israel


But it can apply in reverse as well. Just because people are Jews doesn't mean they can't behave like Nazis. Now, I'm not going to be so stupid as to claim that Israel is just like Nazi Germany(just like it's fucking stupid to compare the Arabs to Nazis), because the Palestinians do present a real threat to them. But it is a threat they created by kicking them out of their homes. Israel's hands are far from clean here. If Arabs had taken Jews out of their homes and systematically exterminated them, then your comparison might be fair, but that is not the case. It is the Palestinians who were kicked out.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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