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Registered: 12/06/04
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Possibility of sclerotia or pseudosclerotia??
    #3693585 - 01/28/05 03:06 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Concerning the subject at hand, I think this belongs in the Advanced Cultivation Forum.

I am a new grower, but PLEASE take this thread serioulsy. I am dedicated to this hobby, and it fascinates me. I, in no way, am trying to gather information without researching first. I have searched the internet and the Shroomery high and low, but I cannot find an answer to my question. I came close with this thread that was posted in Spetmeber 2004. I didn't want to bump it so here is the link.


My situation:

I removed multiple PF tek jars from the refrigerator today. They had been dunked and were ready to be rolled and placed in the fruiting chamber.

A 1 pint cake of KOH SUMAI was stuck in it's jar, so I cut the cake in 4 sections in order to pull it out. Since I had to do this I decided to case this particular cake.

As I pulled each colonised piece out of the jar, I noticed about 10 fairly hard brown masses about the size of a dime WITHIN the cake. The masses were not visible on the outside. The mycelium growth on the outside of the cake was healthy and white, and no contaminants were present upon inspection.

My subsrtate consisted of the typical 2:1:1 verm, brf, water ratio, inoculated with a multispore Ps. Cubensis Koh Sumai, and incubated in a tub-in-tub at a constant 84 degees for nearly 10 weeks. The cake was fully colonized on the outside after 4 weeks. I thought I would leave a few cakes in the incubator for a LONG time, just to see what would happen.

I thought maybe it could have been extremely dense mycelium that colonized a large chunk of substrate, and without proper air circulation? the light brown could be mycelial waste? But I mixed the substrate thorougly, making sure there were no clumps. I did however tamp down 4 jars and 4 not. Would this compaction cause clumping of substrate?

After reading the above mentioned thread, I wondered, could this be either sclerotia or pseudoscleotia? It was mentioned that the Ps. Cubensis starin Koh Sumai has been seen to produce some type of sclerotia.

Unfortunately, it was before I decided to research this that I cased the material. I didn't think much about it until a little later. I wish I wouldn't have been so dumb beforehand and not taken a pic!!

I don't yet understand what sclerotia really is or what it looks like in real life, as I have obviously not yet dealt with a Ps. species that produces sclerotia, such as Mexicana A or Tampanensis.

Could a knowledgeable person please link me to more information on sclerotia and pseudosclerotia? Any info, especially if put in more of mushroom layman's terms, would be greatly appreciated. Also any ideas about what these hardened light brown masses may be?

This was truly a weird spectacle!

EDIT: If this was to be some type of sclerotia would my casing still pin and fruit?

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Edited by WoodsCall (01/28/05 03:07 PM)

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Re: Possibility of sclerotia or pseudosclerotia?? [Re: WoodsCall]
    #3693653 - 01/28/05 03:31 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I agree with Workman,

"Cubensis often produces ill-defined blobs of tissue in culture. Although these are sometimes mistaken for sclerotia, they lack the ability to survive dessication. They also do not directly produce mushrooms when planted in soil after seperation from the mother mycelium. Cubensis pseudo-sclerotia appears to be nothing more than malformed mushrooms. Some strains are more prone to to produce these blobs which may be induced by mutation, environmental stress, virus infection or contamination.

Large pseudo-sclerotia have been reported in the button mushroom industry which can grow up to several pounds. Some attempts have been made to market slices of these large forms as a sort of a mushroom steak, but the mutant strains are unreliable under commercial cultivation conditions.

Psilocybe cubensis has never been reported to produce true sclerotia. "

I have seen these masses form from many different strains.


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Re: Possibility of sclerotia or pseudosclerotia?? [Re: Joshua]
    #3703248 - 01/30/05 07:29 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

So can you trip off them?

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Re: Possibility of sclerotia or pseudosclerotia?? [Re: Heffy]
    #3712423 - 02/01/05 11:05 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I seem to get these masses on my pf cakes every few grows. Maybe like 5 out of 30 jars will develop them when it happens. I was always curious about this as well. Sometimes they even have beeds of mycelium waste coming off the blobs. They are very hard, smell like mushrooms, but look like blobs made of a sponge or something. They always happen to older cakes that finished colonizing first, so I would imagine they might have become pins if they were out of the jar in the right conditions. Maybe the lack of air exchange causes it sometimes.

I will be sure to get some pictures the next time this happens.

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Re: Possibility of sclerotia or pseudosclerotia?? [Re: frock]
    #3805885 - 02/20/05 06:06 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I had a ps cubensis PF cake jar that was emptied but not cleaned out (bits of verm, BRF and myc on the glass)

It lay in my room for at least 12 months before i got off my butt to clean it out - i took some of the mycellium out (which was so etched onto the glass i had to used a pressure hose to get it off)

i saved some by knocking it off with a screwdriver (fear how dry and stong this was) which was dehydrated it and lazily popped it in some dextrose water. amazingly enough my 5 LC jars colonised and i am now birthing 20 pf jars from this year old mycellium that survived being in open air with no medium or water.

It wasnt brown, still white, but perhaps through time one could harden the mycellium to some sort of pseudosclerotia. All i know is, this strain has outstood all conditions i've thrown at it and still come back healthy and clean.

Whilst this isnt sclerotia or psuedo-S, perhaps it was pseudo-pseudo-sclerotia. :P

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

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