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OfflineMichael_Ogic
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Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 48
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Some things I've notice :
    #3684683 - 01/26/05 08:08 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

1- A isolated strain (on agar ) have about the same fruting ability as a "massive" multispore inoculation.

2-(based on the first and second flush) a 10"x16''x2" (composted 75% straw and 25% aged horse manure ) cased bed , produce "about'' the same amount of mushroom than a 10"x16"x2" (verm and brf ) cased bed.

have someone notice the same things ?

Feel free to share your opinions

I've been growing on bulk substrat for a couple of years and i recently re-discovered brf and verm and i must admit that i like it a lot !

Peace


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OfflineMichael_Ogic
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Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: Michael_Ogic]
    #3687817 - 01/27/05 11:07 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I've read somwhere that chinese comercial grower use massive multispore inoculation ...


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Invisibletripndicular
My Minds Eye IsRhizomorphic

Registered: 08/25/02
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Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: Michael_Ogic]
    #3687831 - 01/27/05 11:14 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Issolates on agar blow doors over multi spore IMHO .
But I love the whole thing of having some control of what I am growing .
Cakes are for bakers IMHO .
But bottom line no matter what method Quantity and Quality of food source determines how good a strain flushes IMHO .Well enviros matter too but you get the point  :wink:


--------------------
Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

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OfflineMichael_Ogic
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Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: tripndicular]
    #3687889 - 01/27/05 11:36 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tripndicular said:
Issolates on agar blow doors over multi spore IMHO .




your right !

But "massive" multispore produce millions of substrain and the strongers one will take over the weakess one so a the end, you'll end up with mycelium with very good fruiting ability. (about the same as a issolated strain IMO).

In the same environemental condition , a 5 pound brf casing will yield about the same as a 5 pound composted straw/manure.

right ?


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: Michael_Ogic]
    #3687900 - 01/27/05 11:39 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

can only say: interesting!


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OfflineMichael_Ogic
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Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3693043 - 01/28/05 12:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

please share your opinions !

who know, maybe i'm completly wrong or just a crazy old man


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: Michael_Ogic]
    #3693111 - 01/28/05 01:01 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Will not be an educated opinion!

1. I can agree, massive spore inoculation, survival of the fittest, sounds sane.
2. Would not be surprised, cakes hold lot of water and BRF is nutes available.

Did you spawn BRF to bulk? Would the spawnratio matter?
Do you think that same layer of cased WBS or RYE gives same yields also?


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OfflineMichael_Ogic
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Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3693156 - 01/28/05 01:12 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

-Did you spawn BRF to bulk?
- Yes ! it colonise way faster than white millet or WBS

-Do you think that same layer of cased WBS or RYE gives same yields also?
- i think so , maybe the rye will produce a bit less than the WBS. I've seen incredible result with straight cased WBS


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: Michael_Ogic]
    #3693248 - 01/28/05 01:37 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You are a crazy old man and thats all..

Well maybe thats not all...you may have dependancy issues, insomnia and halitosis. Hard to tell that sort of stuff from a post though. There are many other things you could have besides just being crazy as well...but for now we'll stick with crazy old man.

I have not tried BRF but whole grains...size for size...are better then straw and they say better then poo/compost...and thats just ground up whole grains. Theres less nutes though because of the verm in the BRF...but also over a first and second flush and the second flush could have been less then optimal with straw...especially talking outdoor beds where no dunking was done. I dont care what people say...second and third and forth flushes are beautiful off straight straw...if you have proper pH and DUNK! No dunk though and straw putters out after the first flush..where BRF will go a second flush possibly bigger then its first..

Have not compares isolates to much or "massive" MSI at all so your still crazy.

I find rye to produce more then WBS easy.


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"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: Michael_Ogic]
    #3693289 - 01/28/05 01:52 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Did you use same strains when comparing?

I am happy with my wbs to bulk: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3662015/an/0/page/1

Full colonised in 3 days. The grainjar proces I find less work then cakes too. But im gonna test it, spawning cakes to bulk.

Straight grain casings I dont think I will do, I like the stretching of my spawn with bulk.

I am not very much a yield guy, I already produce more then I can consume. I like to experiment.
Against all odds and advice I rescued some B+ on straw  from a heavily infected strawtub (GREEN MOLD), with succes... so far that is... :wink:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3676228/an/0/page/0

Are you related to PFJARS?

Regards,
MF


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Invisiblemadsickpenguin
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Registered: 08/29/04
Posts: 234
Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3693345 - 01/28/05 02:07 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Afoaf thinks that even though one produces the same dry weight from 5 lbs of BRF compared to 5 lbs of bulk, bulk is still better in terms of being a more efficient method.

It would take more room/jars/spore solution/pressure cooking to make 5 in substrate with BRF, then to just make a couple of quarts of rye/wbs and spawn it to some pasteurized bulk. Seems less hassle to go bulk all and all. Is that about the right idea??


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: madsickpenguin]
    #3693743 - 01/28/05 04:02 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I said about the same, in less words though... :wink: :

"..... I like the stretching of my spawn with bulk. "

Thats why I prefer bulk above straight grain or brf casings. But cakes can be spawned to bulk as well ofcourse, strechting the cake! :lol:

I also simply like the more diverse content of bulksubstrate (grain/brf AND straw and/or poo). Compost is one step further, or maybe even 2 steps... :laugh:

My first strawcasings are pinning now!! :thumbup: Also one straw poo casing is pinning. :rasta:


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OfflineMichael_Ogic
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Registered: 09/07/04
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Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3695913 - 01/29/05 12:39 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
You are a crazy old man and thats all..



:strokebeard:
... thats what i thought
:crazy2:


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OfflineMichael_Ogic
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Registered: 09/07/04
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Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3695972 - 01/29/05 12:58 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

>Did you use same strains when comparing?
yes

nice job with your wbs to bulk ! Maybe you could had yield more if you had done 2 casing of 11/2 " thick with the same amount of substrat

>Are you related to PFJARS?

well, i start by inoculation 250 ml (pf recipe) with issolated mycelium or massive MSI , then after 10-15 day (when about 90-100% colonised ) i crumble the colonised cake in a ziploc bag with 2 - 500ml uncolonised cake, then after 4-7 days when the bag is 100 % i use it to spawn 4 other bags(2 - 500ml uncolonised)

I end up with a bit more than 5 L of colonised subtrate from a single 250ml cake


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OfflineMichael_Ogic
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Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3696023 - 01/29/05 01:14 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomFriend said:
I said about the same, in less words though... :wink: :

"..... I like the stretching of my spawn with bulk. "

Thats why I prefer bulk above straight grain or brf casings. But cakes can be spawned to bulk as well ofcourse, strechting the cake! :lol:

I also simply like the more diverse content of bulksubstrate (grain/brf AND straw and/or poo). Compost is one step further, or maybe even 2 steps... :laugh:





Straw is a relatively "easy to work with" bulk substrat but
composting is an art, i still find it hard to obtain a good nitrogen to carb ratio and proper water content
, and phase 2 composting is a pain in the ass .

don't get me wrong, i still love bulk substat


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InvisibleADoobie
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Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: Michael_Ogic]
    #3696266 - 01/29/05 02:53 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Why do I feel like Stamets wrote somewhere that although a sub-strain might be colonizing faster than another, it doesn't say jack shi_ITE about potency, nay, nor yields?

Correct me if I am wrong...but isn't that the idea of sub-strain isolation of nutrient rich substrates...it gives the grower the ability to follow a sub-strain all the way through the process and decide which one was more acceptable to his/her personal preference...did one prefer the yield of sub-strain a over the potency yet smaller size of sub-strain b? Or perhaps the speeding colonization of sub-strain c at the cost of yield and potency? Forgive the poor fellow that has to decide on sub-strain d for it's fantastic looks, perfect fruit construction, but lower yield and lacking potency.

Call me crazy but I think there is so much more to it than which dominates colonization. It's like pitting a brain against a jock. In a battle of muscle the jock has the brain beat. In a matter of smarts, the brain gets a Nobel while the jock serves the drinks.

Kinda makes you think....
bah I'm drunk :P


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ADoobie said:
I know what strikes me as odd about this. It is totally unnatural. The whole idea is just totally backwards.

So are historians going to look back at 'The Great Cake Eaters'? Damn. That was a backwards step in the evolutionary process. We left Shroomheads in the dust. Welcome to the new age of Vermheads.

VvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVvVv

I ONLY STUDY legal, edible mushrooms and mycology. Any mention of any other kind of mushroom is purely fictional, and pictures are ripped from the internet. I do not grow mushrooms!


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: Michael_Ogic]
    #3696999 - 01/29/05 06:59 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Which casing do you mean? The B+ rescue's? The GT? Or the Orissa?
You mean 1,5 inch?

LOL PFJARS is a vendor here with the name of "mike ologic".

Interesting that you spawn cakes to cakes! But still for me straw and poo (and WBS too) is much cheaper then BRF. Do you think that stretching mycelium to much can cause less aggressive growth? Just like it can cause mutations...


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: Michael_Ogic]
    #3697006 - 01/29/05 07:04 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Hello

I did 5 cakes (1 is in the 5th or 6th (i forgot)flush now).
I did not do plain grain casings.
I did G2G and liquid culture etc, also inocced straw/dung with liquid inoc! And... IT IS FRUITING! :laugh:

Compost is "future music".. :p

MF


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OfflineMichael_Ogic
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Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3697781 - 01/29/05 12:19 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

>You mean 1,5 inch?
yes 1,5 inch thick. more cropping surface usually mean more yield IMO

>LOL PFJARS is a vendor here with the name of "mike ologic".
LOL , I'm sorry , i don't know that guy

>But still for me straw and poo (and WBS too) is much cheaper then BRF.
straw and poo is simply free, but buying rice and verm in bulk make it very cheap
20 kg of long grain brown rice = 19.99 $ and 250 L of verm = 24,99 $, and this last me for months.

>Do you think that stretching mycelium to much can cause less aggressive growth?
yes, but you need to strech it a lot, i use to make about 1000 jars of millets from a single petri.
Its more a question of time ? a old mycelium will lose it aggressivness


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OfflineMushroomFriend
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Re: Some things I've notice : [Re: Michael_Ogic]
    #3697923 - 01/29/05 12:58 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I am new in the casing world! Most say 1/3 of substrate layer. So Orissa has bout one inch of casing. The rest has less since substrate depth is less too...

Verm aint expensive here either. WBS is cheaper then rice here, and I dont ground it! :laugh:

But will see will see, will give som BRF bulk a chance someday! :thumbup:


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