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agar to agar / g2g degeneration effects
    #3630640 -

ey!

talking grain to grain transfers, its usually said not to go more than
3 or 4 generations from the master jar or you will notice degeneration effects.

allright, besides the fact that i do not understand why this should happen
and just stick to the 3 transfer rule, i wonder if that also applies to
agar to agar transfers?

basically, when cutting a wedge and transferring it, you just give the myc
more place to grow at - but basically thats the same with a g2g !

so, does the degernation effects also apply to agar to agar and WHY
is there something such as degeneration when doing g2g ?
peace ohm :mushroom2:


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:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !

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Re: agar to agar / g2g degeneration effects [Re: ohmatic]
    #3630662 -

Cause you get inbreeding and to much cellsplits (growth) from a small base. No fresh blood. I think a2a can be done more cause it only grows a few square inches each time. Might be wrong too cause a transfered grainkernel will on its own neither grow much more myc then an inch or 2.

If we humans multiply to much in the same family you get handicapped peoples.
I had it in an aquarium with small tropical fish called "guppies" after a year the offspring of the offspring off the offspring they got all strange shapes and such. Small base inbreed, no fresh blood.

There was a thread recently about it, where I was wondering the same. But it is as simple as inbreed.

Will check if I can find the thread.

Gluck
MF

edit: OHM here it is

Its about karo 2 karo transfers, basically the same "laws" there.
Hope it is of any help.


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Edited by MushroomFriend (01/15/05 12:55 PM)

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Re: agar to agar / g2g degeneration effects [Re: MushroomFriend]
    #3630934 -

Reminds me of something I've been wondering...

When a substrate (eg, Rye) is innoc'd with a spore syringe, the spores will germinate. The myc from two seperate spores must meet and join to form a myc that can bear fruits. (mono somthing to di something)

Now, when a section of di-something mycelium meet another section of di-something mycelium (both created from different spores), do they 'join' together, or just grow with/around each other?


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Woof Woof

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Re: agar to agar / g2g degeneration effects [Re: ohmatic]
    #3631148 -

As far as the agar to agar transfers go, I think it isn't so much degenration of the strain/substrains, it is a 'tolerance' of the nutes. I have read that after a few transfers, adding in a supplemental nute (such as yeast) can improve growth and kickstart a sluggish culture.

Personally, I have never had a problem and my agar recipe includes yeast anyway.

Geez, does that make any sense? Prolly not - have a rip :bong:


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"I suggest we ... learn to love our ... selves before it ... becomes illegal."

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Re: agar to agar / g2g degeneration effects [Re: daywalker]
    #3637814 -

allright i decided to bump that thread up again,
since i currently am in the 2nd 'generation' on agar.

initial plate was grown by extracting tissue and placing on plate.
i extracted a nice rhizomorphic sector and transferred this sector
to new plates.

so basically that would be 2nd generation, IF the first one already counts as one.

so, can i INDEFINITELY (well ok lets say about 10 times) transfer
agar wedges to new plates or do i have to suffer from degen or does
this NOT APPLY AT ALL to agar?
peace ohm :mushroom2:


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !

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Re: agar to agar / g2g degeneration effects [Re: ohmatic]
    #3637815 -

-> T M C


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: agar to agar / g2g degeneration effects [Re: Anno]
    #3637816 -

Anno said:
-> T M C


lol aiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight :wink:
peace ohm :mushroom2:


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !

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Re: agar to agar / g2g degeneration effects [Re: ohmatic]
    #3637836 -

TMC p 31

Quote:
Continue transferring the mycelium away from the contaminants
until a pure strain is established


that could take numerous approaches, so i guess its cool to do it over and over again.

god damnit ill really look into buying that book,
its freaking awesome!
peace ohm :mushroom2:


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:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !

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Re: agar to agar / g2g degeneration effects [Re: ohmatic]
    #3637899 -

ur welcome :grin:


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Re: agar to agar / g2g degeneration effects [Re: MushroomFriend] * 1
    #3639012 -

Degeneration has to do with how many times the mycelium cells spit or some such...I need to get TMC too...

I think 2 things play a part in agar not being subject to degeneration (at least as easily)..1) the mycelium has to colonize 4 whole quarts full of substrate for 3 transfers (plus original)..with petris it doesnt go through near the amount of splits or work for the mycelium and 2) You can pick the best mycelium from the plate every time...especially when your going for rhizo growth often you want to cut the wedge right after the plate germinates before colonized fully before the cottony mycelium merges with some nice rhizos you may get.

Just some thoughts, havnt played much with agar transfers beyond 2 but have done many generations of g2g transfers so ummm yeah, thats what I'd think would be.


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"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

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Re: agar to agar / g2g degeneration effects [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3639051 -

TMC is most helpful with agar methods and edible mushies. I wasn't extremely impressed with the little extra I learned. You should buy it so you can say you did and get people of your back but the info is a little limited in my small opinion.


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Re: agar to agar / g2g degeneration effects [Re: ohmatic]
    #3639697 -

Yep agarmyc dont colonises big parts i.e. dont split up so much!

For the g2g to degenrate it also depends which ratio one uses imho. 1 to 8 might degenarte twice as fast as a 1 to 4 ratio?

Anyway, sooner or later also myc on agar WILL degenerate......

MF


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