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Offlineragadinks
MrBeatle
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Registered: 10/20/03
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Creating grain spawn with the peroxide method
    #3542144 - 12/25/04 03:07 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

A friend of mine had very good success with the peroxide method and gave me his recipe for creating grain spawn.
I thought it could be interesting for some people here cause you do not have to work in an sterile environment when you inoculate the spawn.
Here is what he does:

The wheat grains he buys in a 50 kg bag for EUR 12,- where they sell it for feeding cattle.

He takes 5 kg of the wheat, washes it thoroughly with hot water, adds 5 teaspoons of gypsum and sterilizes them for about 75 minutes in a pressure
cooker ( 134 degrees Celsius/ 2 AT? ) *without* soaking them before.
This has to be done in order to get rid of the enzymes that would break down the H2O2 otherwise.

After letting everything cool down to room temperature he puts them in clear plastic bags.
Then he adds 30 milliliter 30% H2O2 (=15 ml H2O2/per liter H20) and 30 milliliter liquid fertilizer to 2.25 liter of clean water (=450ml water/kg of grain).
This mixture is added to the grain.
After about 2 days - when the grain has absorbed the liquid - the spawn is ready for inoculation (shake the bags sometimes during these 2 days ...).
For inoculation you only have to add the cultures from one agar plate (or a syringe ?) to 200 gram of the substrate in plain air - no flow hoods or glove boxes for sterile working are needed anymore.
After the 200 gram of the substrate have been colonized by the mycelium you can inoculate another 3-4 kilograms with it.
The best container for the spawn are clear plastic bags cause there a little bit of air/gas exchange takes place.

He also said that he has left the grain spawn for up to 3 weeks in the plastic bags before inoculation and it still worked without problems.

I have not tried it out myself yet, but since this mate has really very good results with cultivating edible species I am sure that it will work very well.
So I certainly will try it out in the near future ...


Edited by ragadinks (12/25/04 03:34 PM)


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Offlinefirstmatefluff
Stranger (thanmost)
Registered: 10/11/04
Posts: 63
Loc: Wisconsin
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
Re: Creating grain spawn with the peroxide method [Re: ragadinks]
    #3552441 - 12/28/04 02:23 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

wonder how this would work for corn.......would corn even take up the water? It looks from previous posts like corn likes to be simmered, and water can still be a problem.....any thoughts raga?


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Offlineragadinks
MrBeatle
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Re: Creating grain spawn with the peroxide method [Re: firstmatefluff]
    #3553693 - 12/28/04 07:17 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

wonder how this would work for co

> would corn even take up the water?
> It looks from previous posts like corn likes to be simmered, and water can still be a problem.
I was also thinking about that problem cause I have bought a big bag of corn for making spawn some time ago.
Hardly can imagine that the corn will soak up all the H2O2/water ...
I will ask the guy from whom I got the description - maybe he has got a clue about that ...


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InvisibleGnuBobo
Frilly Cuffs Extraordinaire
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Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 43,754
Loc: Charisma
Re: Creating grain spawn with the peroxide method [Re: ragadinks]
    #3554981 - 12/29/04 12:25 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

What's the liquid fertilizer?  Sounds interesting.  And the type of bags used? 
Sorry if these are n00b questions.  Imma fixin' to get some shiitake on here in a bit. 
Thanks very much!  :grin:


--------------------
Jerry Garcia. JERRY GARCIA! JERRY GARCIA!!!!


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Offlineragadinks
MrBeatle
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Re: Creating grain spawn with the peroxide method [Re: GnuBobo]
    #3555943 - 12/29/04 05:58 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

> What's the liquid fertilizer?
It's the normal fertilizer you can buy at any garden shop and is used for fertilizing the indoor plants.

> And the type of bags used?
This were clear plastic bags that are used for freezing meat.
Probably a thicker kind of plastic then the normal freezing bags.
But any type of clean plastic bag would do as long as it does not break ...


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Invisiblearmedia
Dikaryon

Registered: 11/03/01
Posts: 169
Re: Creating grain spawn with the peroxide method [Re: ragadinks]
    #3556588 - 12/29/04 10:52 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Question: why do you think he made this change to the standard peroxide method, which is to precook or soak the grain, sterilize it, then add peroxide. You get the same peroxide effect, in less time, with the additional benefit of a fully sterilized substrate from the very start.

His of tek would be great for peroxide compatible substrates, such as those that are pre-heat treated (like pellet fuel), as it would obviate the need for a pressure cooker altogether.

Just wondering,
A


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Offlineragadinks
MrBeatle
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Re: Creating grain spawn with the peroxide method [Re: armedia]
    #3557127 - 12/29/04 01:46 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I think he has no flowhood and this way he can produce a lot of spawn without need for sterile working.
Guess he also uses wood fuel pellet with the peroxide method but that also depends on the strain...


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Offlinefirstmatefluff
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Registered: 10/11/04
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Re: Creating grain spawn with the peroxide method [Re: ragadinks]
    #3557193 - 12/29/04 02:11 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I believe he is pre-cooking to destroy peroxidases within the wheat, so the peroxide isn't destroyed by them......similar to some info on Rush Wayne's site.


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Offlineragadinks
MrBeatle
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Re: Creating grain spawn with the peroxide method [Re: armedia]
    #3557641 - 12/29/04 04:30 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Question: why do you think he made this change to the standard peroxide method, which is to precook or soak the grain, sterilize it, then add peroxide. You get the same peroxide effect, in less time, with the additional benefit of a fully sterilized substrate from the very start.



Sorry, not sure if I fully understood your question when I replied above.
He also sterilizes the grain - only without soaking it - before adding the peroxide.
So the substrate is also sterile from the start.
The only difference is that he does not precook or soak the grain prior to sterilizing it (only washing).
But I do not know why he has changed the method.
I will ask him as soon as I can reach him the next time.
Maybe I can get him to answer the questions himself :wink: ....


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InvisibleDmonikal
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Re: Creating grain spawn with the peroxide method [Re: ragadinks]
    #3592412 - 01/07/05 05:31 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Pretty sure he lets it soak in the peroxidated water so that the peroxide will actually penetrate the kernel rather then just covering the outsides. Nice idea.


--------------------
Give your money or your life
Take 'em both for all I care
Dump your bullets right here


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Offlineragadinks
MrBeatle
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Re: Creating grain spawn with the peroxide method [Re: firstmatefluff] * 1
    #3594483 - 01/07/05 06:12 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

firstmatefluff said:
wonder how this would work for corn.......would corn even take up the water? It looks from previous posts like corn likes to be simmered, and water can still be a problem.....any thoughts raga?



I have asked him now and he said that he does not simmer the corn but treats it like all other grains ...


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Offlineragadinks
MrBeatle
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Re: Creating grain spawn with the peroxide method [Re: Dmonikal]
    #3594492 - 01/07/05 06:14 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Dmonikal said:
Pretty sure he lets it soak in the peroxidated water so that the peroxide will actually penetrate the kernel rather then just covering the outsides. Nice idea.



Yeah, that's probably the reason for this method ...


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Offlinejmeuser
Eco-logic
Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 32
Loc: Golden, Colorado
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: Creating grain spawn with the peroxide method [Re: ragadinks]
    #3679636 - 01/25/05 10:05 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Anyone know anything about home peroxide generators?


--------------------
-Jon

Have:
Pleurotus pulmonarius (Pheonix Oyster)
Letinula edodes (Shitake)
Ganoderma lucidum (Reishi)

Want for trade:
Other edibles . . .


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Offlineragadinks
MrBeatle
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Re: Creating grain spawn with the peroxide method [Re: jmeuser]
    #3681434 - 01/26/05 03:08 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Never heard about home peroxide generators - even though that would be very interesting.
But probably the whole process is too difficult to do it at home.
See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H2O2 ...


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Offlinejmeuser
Eco-logic
Registered: 11/13/04
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Loc: Golden, Colorado
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: Creating grain spawn with the peroxide method [Re: ragadinks]
    #3685935 - 01/26/05 11:46 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

One site, though mostly full of crap (http://educate-yourself.org/cancer/benefitsofhydrogenperozide17jul03.shtml)
does talk about the different grades of hydrogen peroxide. It mentions that 35% food grade H202 is the only one rate for ingestion. Since mushrooms are so efficient at concentrating some chemicals I wonder about the safety of other grades of peroxides, which contain chemical stabilizers, for myco-cultivation. Just a thought.


--------------------
-Jon

Have:
Pleurotus pulmonarius (Pheonix Oyster)
Letinula edodes (Shitake)
Ganoderma lucidum (Reishi)

Want for trade:
Other edibles . . .


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Offlinedebianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
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Re: Creating grain spawn with the peroxide method [Re: jmeuser]
    #3687688 - 01/27/05 09:36 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

fungi, like most any other living organism secrete peroxidase to disintegrate peroxides. they do this because, like most organisms, peroxides are toxic to their cells. following this logic, it wouldn't be stretching to surmise that fungi do not collect and store peroxides like they do with heavy metals. the very presence of peroxides triggers peroxidase production.


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Offlinejmeuser
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Re: Creating grain spawn with the peroxide method [Re: debianlinux]
    #3952292 - 03/22/05 04:30 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Sorry for the confusion. I believe the website I referenced was concerned about the concentration of heavy metals ect. in non-food grade H2O2. My question still stands if store bought peroxide is really pure.


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