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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Gypsum, HEPA Filter, Paul Stamets, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, pH Test Strips

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OfflineMordor
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Registered: 05/15/01
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Rye Quarts Colonized 9 dys, only 1 problem
    #351920 - 06/30/01 12:51 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I innoc'd 14 quart jars of rye on the 21 of June. Used equal 1 1/2 of water and rye, pc'd for two hours and innoc'd the next day. They took off incredibly fast at temps around 86-88. About 80% colonized in 9 days. Shook only once after innoculation. One problem though, they all contamed. Green. Just bits here and there. But they are definitely goners. It took a bit of searching and tests to figure out how the contams got in there and I would have to say - Soak or cook the rye first. I know this may be trivial to some of the experts here, but a lot of the teks do not say to soak or cook. Next batch the rye was cooked for an hour and they are now moving along fine after only 3 days and no contams. I think soaking or cooking to open up the rye a bit allows the pressure cooking to kill the endospores that may remain after pc'ing. At least I sure as hell hope so. One other thing I've noticed - it is not a bad idea to go completely anal to work in sterile conditions at all times. Patiently awaiting the first signs of growth in your jars, day after day, hoping for the best and then finally - growth - green growth, it really ruins your day.

Guess this should be in the contams section.

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Offlineegghead
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Re: Rye Quarts Colonized 9 dys, only 1 problem [Re: Mordor]
    #351930 - 06/30/01 01:04 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I prefer presoaking for 24 hours to allow time for any spores/endospores/whatever to germinate. Then they are zapped w/ the PC. It's soaked it right in the jar w/ 190 degree F water from the water machine and a gram of gypsum.

If you continue to have contam probs, cook your sub longer and use one of your jars as a control jar. That will help you isolate the contam source.


What gets rewarded, gets done.


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OfflineMordor
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Registered: 05/15/01
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Re: Rye Quarts Colonized 9 dys, only 1 problem [Re: egghead]
    #351933 - 06/30/01 01:08 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

The gypsum sounds interesting, what does it help to accomplish? Shakability?

Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.


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Offlinecelsius
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Re: Rye Quarts Colonized 9 dys, only 1 problem [Re: Mordor]
    #351940 - 06/30/01 01:18 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I've innoculated 24 quart jars and only lost 1 to green mold. I'm using 1 1/2cups water and 1 1/2 cups of rye. I do not soak the grain. I just fill and pressure cook. I'm on day 10 and my jars are full colonized. The produce ALOT of heat. This can be a problem like it was for me. Once the jars heat up and you cool them down, heavy water condensation appears. This is where bacteria comes in. Some of my jars are beginning to have a purplish tint to them and the grain has clumped together. To everyone out there using rye and any other type of grain, once the jar is fully colonized, I would store them in the refrigerator to prevent them for heating up. You can store them in the fridge for quite awhile... If you're getting hit my contamn... I would suggest you invest in some filter discs and sterilize your jars for 1 1/2 hours.

- Celsius



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Offlineegghead
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Re: Rye Quarts Colonized 9 dys, only 1 problem [Re: Mordor]
    #351942 - 06/30/01 01:23 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Mainly its on Stamets' recommendation. I like to think that it reduces clumping and acts as a pH buffer. I'm also partial to adding a multi-vitamin or mineral tablet into each quart jar. 1/2 tab for pints. This is for nutrient boost mainly, but the minerals (calcium?) seem to fill the role of gypsum. Some people boost w/ malt which is more energetic/sugary than nutritional.

Anyway, there's a lot you could do if you want to experiment. Most folks would probably say it's not worth the trouble. If nothing else, it's fun to experiment.


What gets rewarded, gets done.


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OfflineMordor
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Re: Rye Quarts Colonized 9 dys, only 1 problem [Re: egghead]
    #351950 - 06/30/01 01:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

A multi-vitamin, now that would be a good experiment. I'm also experimenting with another idea someone posted. Dung+Rye+Verm, equal parts. It is colonizing faster than the rest! Maybe a vitamin in that mix will be the ultimate substrate. Will have to wait and count the weight and flushes. Experimenting is fun. Also looks like my malt solution colonizes faster too.

It's life. The dark that binds you. - InFlames.


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Invisibleralphster44
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Re: Rye Quarts Colonized 9 dys, only 1 problem [Re: Mordor]
    #352259 - 07/01/01 02:37 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

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InvisibleUna
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Re: Rye Quarts Colonized 9 dys, only 1 problem [Re: Mordor]
    #352297 - 07/01/01 05:13 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Green mold does not form endospores. Endospores are produced by bacteria. In my experience green mold is a contaminant that is caused by spores entering your are jars AFTER they have been sterilised; either from the air, or from the syringe you were using.

As egghead says, by not inoculating one of the jars you will be able to tell whether or not the infection is caused during the inoculation. I cannot imagine that mold/bacteria spores would survive two hours of pressure cooking, so i 'm pretty sure something during inoculation went wrong.

We do not use gypsum, and have never found this necessary. It should prevent clumping but when using the correct water:rye ratio this is unnecessary. For some species however (Agaricus) the pH is more important, and the mycelium will grow very poorly in grain without gypsum.

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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Rye Quarts Colonized 9 dys, only 1 problem [Re: Mordor]
    #352381 - 07/01/01 11:48 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Did you put the lid airtight on your jars when PC'ing ?
Anyway, i use a simple step everybody seems to forget, i use it since i started this shroom cultivation and never had a contam, this step is freezing the jars after PC'ing. Yes the temp. differential will kill allmost if not all contams inside the jars wich were not killed by PC'ing. It's easy as hell, just put the jars after being PC'ed inside the freezer and let them stay over the night, the next day take them out and let them defreeze naturally, then inoculate. Extreme cold also kill contams you just have to expose them to cold a bit more time than eat, why everybody allways think of just extreme eat ?

Cheers,
MAIA

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InvisibleUna
controlleddemolition

Registered: 03/01/01
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Re: Rye Quarts Colonized 9 dys, only 1 problem [Re: MAIA]
    #352414 - 07/01/01 12:42 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

First of all putting hot stuff in your freezer is not smart it will:
a) damage your freezer
b) warm up the inside of your freezer, which will make the foodstuff inside spoil.

Second, the inside of a freezer is -18oC, you can hardly call that extreme cold.
Have you ever tried making substrate without freezing it afterwards? I bet you will get exactly the same results.

Just because i wear a funny hat during pressue cooking, doesn't mean that wearing a funny hat would help in killing molds and bacteria. (We hardly have any contaminated jars, and we DO make a lot of them)

Something that IS effective, is a sudden fluctuation in pressure. If you are the lucky owner of a pressure cooker that holds a vacuum while cooling down you could use that. (You would however need a micron filter (not a filter disc) or HEPA filtered air for this).

BTW: the funny hat was just an example, i do not wear anything on my head while pressure cooking;).

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Offlineegghead
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Re: Rye Quarts Colonized 9 dys, only 1 problem [Re: Una]
    #352420 - 07/01/01 01:03 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Damn! <returns funny hat to closet>


What gets rewarded, gets done.


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OfflineJesusWeed
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Re: Rye Quarts Colonized 9 dys, only 1 problem [Re: egghead]
    #352424 - 07/01/01 01:13 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Rofl.......

Egghead makes me laugh!

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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Rye Quarts Colonized 9 dys, only 1 problem [Re: Una]
    #352443 - 07/01/01 01:46 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Well i have a big freezer arc wich lowers the temps to -30?C, i don't really care if it gets damaged, anyway it's at my disposal for this kind of stuff.
It's just an extra step and i think it might work to a certain point.

BTW, nice videos at your site. Keep up the good work!! :wink:

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Yellowing and green with mold
So i can barely see your face
Wonder how that color taste"
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Edited by MAIA on 07/01/01 01:49 PM.



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OfflineRam85
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Registered: 04/28/01
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Re: Rye Quarts Colonized 9 dys, only 1 problem [Re: Una]
    #352471 - 07/01/01 02:31 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I wear a giant mushroom cap on my head while PC'ing. NOT ONE CONTAM YET. PRAISE THE MUSHROOM HAT.

"It lasted for a million years and for a split-second. But it's over and now it's your turn." -Timothy Leary
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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Gypsum, HEPA Filter, Paul Stamets, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, pH Test Strips

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