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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: GazzBut]
    #3332753 -

Bush encouraged those tax cuts for the wealthy for two reasons:

1. Wealthy people like to invest their money. When wealthy people
invest their money, jobs for poor schmucks are created.

2. When there is a tax break, the people who paid the most in
should get the most back. This may make Lefties scream and stomp
their feet, but the middle-class and the wealthy carry America.
Poor people DON'T pay federal taxes in America. If there is a tax
cut, the people who paid in should get some of the money back that
they paid in.

I do not understand this whole class warfare/class envy stance
at all...

I did recently receive an inheritance, so my financial life has
improved dramatically. However, before this inheritance I went
from being poor to lower-middle class. Being that I am young, I am
still trying to get established and stable. The average white male
in America earns $25,000 a year the last time I checked. I was
averaging about $20,000 a year before my
inheritance came.

Yet, during this time I managed to *gasp* support myself and not
mooch off of my family or my government. I take pride in knowing
that I was not taking other people's money(even if those other
people are rich and could spare a dime).

Even during these times, I still recognized that everybody should
hang on to as much of their money as possible. If a person is rich,
they should be able to keep a lot of their money. If there is a tax
break, the rich should get the most back because they paid the most
in.

P.S. However, let me add that I think the tax cuts were not a good
idea considering the debt that the U.S. federal government has.
We either need to cut spending or raise taxes to take care of it,
and the politicians realize that both of those are not very
popular options....but they are painfully necessary in order to
get the debt paid down.

Edited by RandalFlagg (11/08/04 12:02 PM)

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: Gijith]
    #3332759 -

what are your thoughts on minimum wage laws?

they should be eliminated.

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: ]
    #3332763 -

And drive wages for everyone else through the floor when employers start realising they can get desperate people to work for $3 an hour instead of the $10 an hour they were paying..

Smart move...


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: Xlea321]
    #3332771 -

Is minimum wage $10 per hour...?

I have to say, I think this is the right move. The market will be able to handle these things better than the government.


--------------------
what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: Xlea321]
    #3332775 -

How can a labourer paid cents for making a trainer that is sold for hundreds of dollars be being paid "what his work is worth"?

because his work is worth cents an hour.

you do understand that more goes into selling a pair of shoes than stitching them together?

someone's got to build the machines on which they are made. someone has to buy the materials. someone has to store them until they're ready to be shipped out. someone has to ship them. someone has to market them. someone has to hold them until they're ready to be sold. someone has to sell them.

your labor (or anything else) has an economic value equal to that which you can exchange it for.

if a laborer is getting less for his labor than it is actually worth, he is free to seek employment elsewhere, or go into business on his own.

Do you really think executives today are doing so better than they were 20 years ago that they can justify

they don't need to be doing anything better. that simply is not how prices are set in the market. supply and demand alex. if there are less of them available compared to the number needed, they will be valued at a higher rate.

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: Gijith]
    #3332780 -

No, demolish the minimum and the employers will start lowering everyone elses wages as well.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: ]
    #3332786 -

because his work is worth cents an hour

What you can get away with paying someone and what their work is worth arn't the same thing. Otherwise they could simply pay americans to do the work instead of moving to the third world. An american doing the same work would be paid more.

someone's got to build the machines on which they are made

You clearly don't understand the first thing about where the profits lay. Slave labour rates are the key to the astronomical profits these companies make. Not the price of sewing machines.

if a laborer is getting less for his labor than it is actually worth, he is free to seek employment elsewhere

And if every other company in the surrounding 100 miles is also paying slave labour rates? It's known as "the race to the bottom".

or go into business on his own.

Simple as that  :rolleyes:

they don't need to be doing anything better

So they arn't doing any better than they were 20 years ago. Agreed. They are simply squeezing the bottom end and awarding themselves a bigger peice of the pie.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: ]
    #3332793 -

I work as a custodian with a bunch of mexicans.

we make 6 dollars per hour. the mexicans complain everyday how they dont get paid enough. sure enough, the turnover rate is rediculous. The quality of the work is horrible and we always get complaints because nobody gets used to cleaning their area because it they end up quiting after two weeks. We dont get paid what we are worth but there is always a couple of mexicans waiting in line to see if it is worth their time. If it werent for minimum wage we would be getting payed way less money and the quality of work would go even further down hill. I wouldnt have a job and I wouldnt be able to pay to go to college. therefore eliminating the minimum wage would make it harder for people to go to college. Society would become even more divided between rich and poor.


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: Xlea321]
    #3332794 -

Alex, you've never explained to us why employers running non-unionized businesses pay more than minimum wage. According to your "reasoning" (your oft-repeated "race to the bottom" fallacy), no employer will pay more than the government forces them to. Yet even a cursory examination of the real world disproves this.

Would you care to explain this inconvenient fact in this thread, or will you continue to ignore it since it contradicts your unsupported assertion?

pinky


--------------------

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: ]
    #3332796 -

Quote:
because his work is worth cents an hour.



You obviously have lost your grip on reality. I cant think of a single job or chore that is worth pennies an hour except for the few tired sexual insults about someones mom.


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: Phred]
    #3332805 -

Yet even a cursory examination of the real world disproves this.

It certainly does..

The Indonesian Times reported that another 10,000 workers from nearby garment, shoe and bag manufacturers also went on strike on April 22. These workers demanded an increase in the minimum wage, every Sunday off with pay, and sick leave as well as increases in transport and overtime allowances.

The workers from the PT Hardaya Aneka factory demanded they be paid the new government minimum wage that was supposed to go into effect on April 1. According to the new minimum wage laws, the workers' wages should have been raised from $2.26 a day to $2.46 a day. But the Indonesian government allows garment and shoe manufacturers with large work forces to ask for permission to delay paying the new minimum wage if a public audit proves they are incapable of doing so. And the Nike factory had asked the government for permission not to pay the new minimum wage on the grounds that the wage increase would be a "financial hardship."

Nike's chairman and top CEO, Philip Knight, is worth over $5 billion dollars. And Nike made $673 million in profits last year. But they say they can't afford to pay the workers who make their shoes in Indonesia an extra 20 cents a day!

http://rwor.org/a/v19/905-09/908/nike1.htm


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: 1stimer]
    #3332806 -

Nothing is worth anything more than what someone is willing to pay for it.

pinky


--------------------

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: 1stimer]
    #3332809 -

You obviously have lost your grip on reality. I cant think of a single job or chore that is worth pennies an hour except for the few tired sexual insults about someones mom.

Amen.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: ]
    #3332815 -

Quote:
an executive is paid what his work is worth. i fail to see why there is an ethical dilemma or cause for government intervention here.




???? There is already government intervention...You libertarians live in cloud cuckoo land, you should try popping down to reality every once in a while.


--------------------
Always Smi2le

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: Phred]
    #3332821 -

Nothing is worth anything more than what someone is willing to pay for it.

Except that I have already explained to you that an american doing exactly the same job as a worker in the third world would be paid far more.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: GazzBut]
    #3332824 -

You libertarians live in cloud cuckoo land, you should try popping down to reality every once in a while.

Reality? I'm not sure they've ever heard of it..


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3332843 -

Quote:
1. Wealthy people like to invest their money. When wealthy people
invest their money, jobs for poor schmucks are created.




Yeah and where did you learn this little gem from? Perhaps from people who stand to benefit from it becoming a widely accepted belief. Can you actually prove this is so? Top earners salaries are rising alot quicker than anybody elses and have been for a long time so why isnt this theory that you like to believe actually working? Or does it simply create alot more low income jobs and help to increase the wealth divide even more...is that what its actually supposed to do??

Quote:
I do not understand this whole class warfare/class envy stance
at all...




I dont understand why you are applying this to anything Ive said. Care to explain why? You wouldnt just be thinking on autopilot and not actually paying attention to whats being said would you?


--------------------
Always Smi2le

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: Xlea321]
    #3332931 -

What you can get away with paying someone and what their work is worth arn't the same thing.

actually it is. something is worth whatever you can get someone to pay you for it.

Otherwise they could simply pay americans to do the work instead of moving to the third world. An american doing the same work would be paid more.

even identical goods are worth different amounts to different people in different places.

Simple as that

exactly. there are many other inputs to the actual sale of a pair of shoes than the labor that goes into physically putting it together. if there weren't, a laborer could just do the whole shabang by himself, and pocket all of the profits.

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: 1stimer]
    #3332944 -

You obviously have lost your grip on reality.

if you believe that something is worth more than what it can be voluntarily exchanged for, it is you who has lost his grip on reality.

if you think that people are getting less for their work than it is worth, i have to ask... worth to who?

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Re: Corporate pay scales... [Re: Xlea321]
    #3332948 -

i've worked a few jobs in my time that didn't require any skills whatsoever. i could have been illiterate, unable to speak english or do basic math, and i still could have performed the work. i have always been paid more than minimum wage. why do you think my capitalist masters have paid me more than legally required?

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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