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 Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
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Loc: U.S.S.A.
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 Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths  [Re: enotake2]
#3503752 - 12/15/04 01:25 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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"WTF? 1 in 100 in the general population are psychopaths. It says nowhere than 1 in 10 leftists or 1 in 10 politicians are psychopaths."
Like you, I pulled the figure out of someone's ass. In this case my own. Your source says, "Paul Babiak says he's "not comfortable" with one researcher's estimate that one in ten executives is a psychopath, but he has noticed that they are attracted to positions of power." The point is, there is no reliable evidence for the one in ten claim which you brought up.
"I reckon leftists are less likely to be psychopaths as they are more humanitarian and less just concerned with how policy affects number one. "
I reckon that judging by history, leftists like Stalin, Mao, Castro and all the happy leftists who followed their orders are conveniently forgotten in your calculations.
"A professor who has been studying this stuff forever says psychopaths have traits that make them suited to climbing the ladder to high places, and you contradict it."
Forever is a very long time, my guess is that you are mistaken. I take issue with one trait, because on it's face it contradicts common sense. Planning for the long term is an essential part of long term business success. I don't take issue with the claim that there are psychopaths in all walks of life, including the business world. I also don't doubt that they can find certain niches that fit their personalities, much to the detriment of their fellow workers and the public at large. I do however doubt wildly exaggerated claims reeking from the stench of prejudicial mindsets.
Which professor gave the one in ten claim? Where is his research to back it up? Has this research been the subject of peer review? Are the any other studies that have come to the same conclusion?
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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain
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 Phluck
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: enotake2]
#3503754 - 12/15/04 01:26 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Autonomous, where did you get your psychology degree from? A professor who has been studying this stuff forever says psychopaths have traits that make them suited to climbing the ladder to high places, and you contradict it.
There's no need to insult someone's education over this, they're both right. The average psychopath lacks the self control or intelligence to succeed. The ones with higher self control can, and often do succeed.
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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us
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silversoul7
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: enotake2]
#3503759 - 12/15/04 01:27 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
enotake2 said:
I reckon leftists are less likely to be psychopaths as they are more humanitarian and less just concerned with how policy affects number one.
It's easy to be humanitarian with other people's money.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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enotake2
Stop Bush's war
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: silversoul7]
#3504082 - 12/15/04 02:55 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
silversoul7 said:
Quote:
enotake2 said:
I reckon leftists are less likely to be psychopaths as they are more humanitarian and less just concerned with how policy affects number one.
It's easy to be humanitarian with other people's money.
It shouldn't be that hard to be humanitarian with other people's money either.
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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.
"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium
"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.
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enotake2
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: zappaisgod]
#3504139 - 12/15/04 03:08 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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The articles are saying 1 in 100 of people in the general population are psychopaths & one in 10 executives are psychopaths and that they are a special population.
Psychopathy is called Antisocial Personality Disorder in DSM. It used to be called psychopathy - they took away a couple of the criteria and called it APD - it is now a softer diagnosis (it's easier to get diagnosed with this). In this article, Prof Hare lists the common criteria of psychopathy and APD and argues for the superiority of a the psychopathy diagnosis. The trend in psychology at the time was for behavioural criteria ie diagnosis based on observable behaviour bc it was not considered scientific to make inferences about the mind but this has been outmoded by the popularisation of cognitive psychology where the mind has become scientifically testable. I expect that psychopathy will make a return in DSM V.
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p960239.html
DSM criteria for APD
http://www.sc.maricopa.edu/sbscience/psy266/criteria/personality/antisocial.html
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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.
"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium
"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.
Edited by enotake2 (12/15/04 04:09 PM)
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: enotake2]
#3504145 - 12/15/04 03:09 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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How about being humanitarian with your own money instead?
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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enotake2
Stop Bush's war
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: Autonomous]
#3504172 - 12/15/04 03:16 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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I took "not comfortable" to mean that that is an unsettling fact. Though you may (or may not) be right. Babiak and Hare are doing their own research into corporate psychopaths at the moment. I reckon I'll follow it. I think I will also buy their book "Snakes in suits" - sounds good.
Prof Hare is a prof of psychology at the University of British Columbia. He has been researching psychopathy for over 25 years and has published over 100 articles (yes peer reviewed - like the one I posted in my post above), it seems he has also won numerous awards for his research and he has written a number of books on it as well. In fact, he is considered to be the world expert on psychopathy. Here is his web site:
http://www.hare.org/home/index.html
My quote from him from before:
"You might find that some companies want a lot of psychopathic traits," he says. Some are useful in certain jobs - detached emotions in surgeons, for example - but the whole cut-throat package seems most valued in business. If Hare couldn't do research in prisons, he says his next choice would be the Vancouver Stock Exchange.
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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.
"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium
"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.
Edited by enotake2 (12/15/04 04:19 PM)
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enotake2
Stop Bush's war
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: silversoul7]
#3504177 - 12/15/04 03:18 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks, I am. But I wish mine and your Government would be and that corporations would be humanitarian with my money too.
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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.
"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium
"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: enotake2]
#3504614 - 12/15/04 04:22 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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From Hare's website..."Please be advised that Dr. Hare does not make clinical assessments." (Italics his)
From the Psych Times link, "These killers were not simply persistently anti-social individuals who met DSM-IV criteria for ASPD; they were psychopaths-remorseless predators who use charm, intimidation and, if necessary, impulsive and cold-blooded violence to attain their ends."
Also, " the distinction between Psychopathy and ASPD is of considerable significance to the mental health and criminal justice systems."
This looks to me like yet another attempt to smear people who succeed and to capitalize on doing so. As usual, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. My Psych degree is BA, SUNY@Buffalo '79.
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: enotake2]
#3504631 - 12/15/04 04:24 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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sounds like 1 in 10 americans to me.
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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enotake2
Stop Bush's war
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: zappaisgod]
#3505088 - 12/15/04 05:30 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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He has worked with psychopaths as a psychologist in the past.
"This looks to me like yet another attempt to smear people who succeed and to capitalize on doing so. As usual, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny."
You are entitled to your opinion.
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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.
"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium
"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.
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dr_gonz
Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 44,654
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: dr_gonz]
#3507057 - 12/15/04 11:45 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's appallingly easy to recognize bad fiction when you see it.
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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain
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enotake2
Stop Bush's war
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: Autonomous]
#3507093 - 12/15/04 11:53 PM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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So do you not beleive in the concept at all?
I was thinking about your comment that "lack of realistic, long term goals" does not seem to fit with an executive. I think the psychopath would be less about personal fulfillment (like it might be for normal people) and more about money and power - so while ever they were climbing the corporate ladder or getting stimulation from the high-powered lifestyle they might stick around. Stimulation seeking is pretty important to them and often they do things eg. manipulate a person, just to see if they can, and that is exciting to them, rather than to acheive an end.
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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.
"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium
"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: enotake2]
#3507153 - 12/16/04 12:06 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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Which concept is that? The idea that one in ten executives are psychopaths? I have not seen any studies supporting this, have you? If so, have you seen said studies offered up for peer review? Have you seen corroborating studies?
I have already stated that I do not doubt that psychopaths can be found in all walks of life, that I do not doubt that there may be certain niches in corporations where they find themselves doing well. I am concerned that the field of politics is better suited to a psychopathic personality than almost any other profession, and history is full of horrid examples of this.
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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain
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enotake2
Stop Bush's war
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: Autonomous]
#3507167 - 12/16/04 12:15 AM (19 years, 4 months ago) |
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"It's appallingly easy to recognize bad fiction when you see it. "
I thought in this comment you were saying it was bad bc it was about psychopaths. But you just don't like the book.
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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.
"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium
"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.
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 Baby_Hitler
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: enotake2]
#4239950 - 05/31/05 12:41 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sounds like somebody tried to put too fine a point on the more general statement "Some executives are assholes.".
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This space for rent
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: enotake2]
#4240590 - 05/31/05 03:23 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think you and I read the same book on sociopaths, as it does mention that same statistic and the exact same traits.
Sociopathy seems to me to be more of a genetic mutation (or perhaps lack thereof?). I think some people are born predisposed to have the attitude of a sociopath, and then their environment will affect the way of acting out their predispositions. If they're a sociopath raised in a high-class executive family where their glibness and seemingly relaxed nature get them places, then it makes sense that they'd advance through the corporate world easily, though probably will leaving quite a trail behind them of people who noticed something was amiss.
If they're raised in a trailer-park with no class and very lowly educated though, they'll probably be more of a common criminal psychopath who just goes from person to person fucking them over and taking what they can. It's really all the same predispositions, but the environment in which these people are raised seems to determine whether chances are they'll get caught or punished. Sad to say, most sociopathic executives won't.
And by the way, Bush is nothing like a sociopath, in any way, shape or form. Bush is brutally honest and stuttering. He's not glib or a good-talker, he doesn't seem to be able to have that sociopathic nonchalance with people he meets, and so on into all his traits. What makes you think Bush is a sociopath?
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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newuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: Ravus]
#4240656 - 05/31/05 03:40 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Bush is brutally honest
huh?
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: newuser1492]
#4240674 - 05/31/05 03:44 PM (18 years, 10 months ago) |
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Indeed, ignoring the debatable parts where we don't know if he truely believed it, like WMDs in Iraq, which I think he did, on everything else he tends to be extremely blunt and straightforward. Just look at his Bushisms to see how easily the truth gets forced from his narrow skull.
Either way, even if he does lie about the debatable issues, like for example if he knew there weren't any WMDs in Iraq but told the Americans there were, he does it in such a non-convincing way I can't see him being anything close to a successful sociopath.
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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