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Offlineenotake2
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One in ten executives are psychopaths
    #3495778 - 12/14/04 05:05 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I was just reading about how 1 in 10 executives are psychopaths. These are their characteristics:

? Glib and superficial charm
? Callousness and lack of empathy
? Grandiose sense of self worth
? Parasitic lifestyle (lives off of other people)
? Need for stimulation, prone to boredom
? Poor behavioral controls
? Pathological lying
? Promiscuous sexual behavior
? Conning and manipulativeness
? Early behavior problems (temper tantrums and disobedience)
? Lack of remorse or guilt
? Failure to accept personal responsibility
? Shallow affect (no deep feelings about anything or anyone)
? Lack of realistic, long-term goals
? Impulsivity
? Irresponsibility
? Criminal versatility (good at a lot of different crimes)

That helps explain some of the very questionable behaviour of corporations (besides the effects of diffuse responsibility among such large groups of people). Also sounds like one president I know of ...and half of congress.


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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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OfflineSWEDEN
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: enotake2]
    #3496001 - 12/14/04 07:23 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Can we have a source?  :confused:


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: enotake2]
    #3496033 - 12/14/04 07:33 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Well, I don't know about 1 in 10, sounds like someone just pulled that number out of their ass, but psychopathy is not uncommon in people with power.

Have you ever met a psychopath in real life? The majority of them are too impulsive and greedy to actually succeed in one endeavor for a long time. I knew a few people who were chronic thieves, manipulators and liars. Usually, they'd seem like the nicest people you'd ever met, and they'd use this against you. They'd trick you into hating their enemies (usually former friends they'd fucked over), and eventually rip you off in some way, and move on to the next group of friends.

I've known two people like this in my life, and I don't particularly care to know any more.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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OfflinePhluck
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: enotake2]
    #3496040 - 12/14/04 07:36 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Also sounds like one president I know of ...and half of congress.

Actually, Bush doesn't really seem ANYTHING like a psychopath. This does not mean that he's not greedy, or that his government hasn't done bad things, but his personality just doesn't match the profile at all.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: enotake2]
    #3496233 - 12/14/04 09:30 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

That helps explain some of the very questionable behaviour of corporations (besides the effects of diffuse responsibility among such large groups of people). Also sounds like one president I know of ...and half of congress.





Not sure about that, seems to be quite an accurate description of teenagers though with a few exceptions of course.


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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #3496352 - 12/14/04 10:56 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

It does indeed sound like a lot of teenagers. The less politically correct of those in the child development field will admit (after a few drinks and if they are sure they are among friends) that the process of raising a child is in large part one of re-programming it from the tabula rasa amoral natural state of the standard newly arrived human into one with empathy and conscience. Children are barbarians if left to their own devices.

Psychopaths -- as can be seen by the list of their attributes -- are in essence people for whom this socialization process failed to take -- either through some organic flaw or through flawed parenting. Anyone who has a young child or has worked around children will get an instant sense of d?ja vu when reading through that list.

And I agree with Phluck about that "1 in 10" figure being pulled out of someone's ass. He is correct in saying that the flaws in the typical psychopath's (or the more current term, sociopath) psychological makeup make it unlikely they will make it to the top.


pinky


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: Phred]
    #3497506 - 12/14/04 03:41 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The less politically correct of those in the child development field will admit (after a few drinks and if they are sure they are among friends) that the process of raising a child is in large part one of re-programming it from the tabula rasa amoral natural state of the standard newly arrived human into one with empathy and conscience. Children are barbarians if left to their own devices.





Had a few in the bar have you pinky? Gimme a break...


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: GazzBut]
    #3497646 - 12/14/04 04:07 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

hahaha :tongue2: pinky's had a few

:doggystyle:<<this produces more than one type of child I can tell you

girls and boys for a start :tongue2:


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: Phred]
    #3497685 - 12/14/04 04:14 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

>>> Children are barbarians if left to their own devices.


"lord or the flies" out on DVD yet?


when i worked in mutual funds for Northwestern, i heard stories about richard strong of strong funds (now resigned from improper trading practices)
he would walk around the office and make sure every employees' cublicle was exactly the same...even making some workers turn the screws that hold the cube together so they all faced the same direction. he was a germophobe and was afraid of drit and dust, things of that nature....
thats pertty pychotic. as far as other execs, i have no idea.


--------------------
If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?


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InvisibleGreat_Satan
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: MrBump]
    #3498895 - 12/14/04 07:33 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Psychopathology means mental illness. For me to believe this communist drivel, I would have to see statistics showing diagnoses from various psychiatrists.


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3498934 - 12/14/04 07:38 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Would you accept it as fact if the initiator of this thread claimed he saw it in a Michael Moore movie? That seems to be a standard for "fact" with some.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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InvisibleGreat_Satan
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: Autonomous]
    #3499011 - 12/14/04 07:49 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)



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Offlineenotake2
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: enotake2]
    #3502283 - 12/15/04 06:16 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Source:
http://www.hare.org/links/saturday.html

Some other related articles:

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/BUSINESS/08/26/corporate.psychopaths/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4057771.stm


This is not pulled out of my arse: Paul Babiok a published organisational psychologist who quoted other research - I'd suggest that's a trusty source.

Psychopaths seek out power. In an article about Robert Hare, an emeritus professor who has been researching psychopathy for over 25 years:

The Canadian's latest research has taken him into the corporate world, developing a checklist he calls the b-scan as a way to find psychopaths in the office.

"We're going to smoke them out," he grins. He points to Andrew Fastow, the former head of Enron, and the destruction he and other CEOs caused through their cold-blooded greed. "We could probably have prevented most of that if they had been screened beforehand."

A book, Snakes in Suits, due out next year, will push the b-scan as a way to help businesses screen psychopaths out. Or in.

"You might find that some companies want a lot of psychopathic traits," he says. Some are useful in certain jobs - detached emotions in surgeons, for example - but the whole cut-throat package seems most valued in business. If Hare couldn't do research in prisons, he says his next choice would be the Vancouver Stock Exchange.

Satan - Psychopaths is not 'psychopathology', it is a type of psychopathology - one of the personality disorders.

Re Kids being psychopaths - I have never heard of that idea and I have been studying and working in psychology for 14 years now. Some kids have traits like psychopathy but it is called conduct disorder. A youth version of the psychopathy checklist has just been developed for adolescents. Their moral development may not be as good as adults but not all kids could kill someone or maliciously torture an animal and then get on with eating their bagel.

The corn king - that sounds like obsessive compulsive disorder.


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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Anonymous

Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: enotake2]
    #3502788 - 12/15/04 10:11 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

i would be willing to wager that by the criteria established for "psychopath" here, 1 in 10 is probably the going rate for the rest of the population as well, if not higher.

business people are the new jews.


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: ]
    #3502828 - 12/15/04 10:29 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Did anyone say that the general population doesnt hold its fair share of crazies?

Every top-level management person that I've ever met (through my father, himself included) seemed to possess such personality traits; this doesnt seem to be as common in other circles I have encountered.


Edited by bi0 (12/15/04 10:37 AM)


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: ]
    #3502899 - 12/15/04 11:18 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

"i would be willing to wager that by the criteria established for "psychopath" here, 1 in 10 is probably the going rate for the rest of the population as well, if not higher."
From the CNN.com article, "Professor Hare estimates that as much as one percent of the population of Britain and North America are clinically psychopathic -- are their lack of compassion and inability to empathize with others." From the BBC news article, "He estimates that one in 100 people in North America are psychopaths. " So it turns out that we could just as easily state, one in ten leftists are psychopaths, or one in ten politicians are psychopaths. Though by the listing of traits, I am sure that the percentage is much higher among politicians than the general populace.

At least one of the traits listed "Lack of realistic, long-term goals" would seem to preclude a psychopath from getting very high up the corporate ladder.

Some other information that I got from the articles, Dr Paul Babiak and Prof Hare have developed a new 107-point questionnaire, the "Business Scan 360" test. Thi$ test i$ de$igned to be u$ed by corporation$ to identify which corporate per$onnel are p$ychopath$. They also have written a book, "Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths go to Work," thi$ i$ at the publi$her, and I'm $ure they hope to $ell it $oon.

"business people are the new jews."
True.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


Edited by Autonomous (12/15/04 03:40 PM)


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: Autonomous]
    #3503328 - 12/15/04 01:49 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

mushmaster said one in ten.

your CNN artical stated one in one hundred. i think thats a fair estimate....


--------------------
If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: Autonomous]
    #3503585 - 12/15/04 02:49 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

"one in ten leftists are psychopaths, or one in ten politicians are psychopaths."
WTF? 1 in 100 in the general population are psychopaths. It says nowhere than 1 in 10 leftists or 1 in 10 politicians are psychopaths. Though politicians are like high level executives except that they are administering the country.

I reckon leftists are less likely to be psychopaths as they are more humanitarian and less just concerned with how policy affects number one.

Autonomous, where did you get your psychology degree from? A professor who has been studying this stuff forever says psychopaths have traits that make them suited to climbing the ladder to high places, and you contradict it.


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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: enotake2]
    #3503728 - 12/15/04 03:22 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Your (Hare's) list describe characteristics of psychopaths but it doesn't elucidate the defining characteristic(s) of psychopaths. Could you provide what the latest DSM concludes are the defining characteristic(s) of a psychopath? Pinky is rather correct in his assertion that these are almost all common characteristics of children, yet I would suspect that there is some other distinction other than age for true adult psychopaths. If not, then the term has no meaning. As to the other articles asserting 1% psychopaths in the population, they are probably using a different definition than the guy who says 10%. Frankly, any definition of psychopath which allows the inclusion of 10% of any large population (other than incarcerated nutcases or murderers)is probably of no use because it doesn't make enough of a distinction from the populace at large.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: One in ten executives are psychopaths [Re: enotake2]
    #3503735 - 12/15/04 03:23 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I reckon leftists are less likely to be psychopaths as they are more humanitarian and less just concerned with how policy affects number one.

Ah, but that's overlooking the nature of the psychopath. Psychopaths have no problem "adopting", or ferverously preaching any ideology, if it gathers people behind them, or will help them profit.

Religious faith healers have all the earmarks of psychopaths. Remember, the psychopath's advantage is that they seem so well meaning and honest, often even moreso than people with genuine good will.

The most effective place to be greedy is where its least expected.

About kids being psychopaths, there was a recent study that showed children are at their most violent and least compassionate around the age of two. A two year old child rarely had any control of their violent impulses, and doesn't understand that their actions can cause harm to others. Depending on whether or not they learn to control their behaviour at this age sets the stage for the rest of their lives. However, I'm not sure if this is related to psychopathy. Lots of violent and out of control people are not psychopaths at all. Just people whose emotions cause them to react violently. A psychopath often doesn't need to use violence to manipulate and exploit others.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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