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Invisibledblaney
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Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors
    #3855933 - 03/02/05 07:56 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

It's about time something was done, if you ask me. The entire point of a juvenille justice system is to prevent juvenilles from being treated as adults, for a variety of reasons.

Yes, this does mean that the 17-year old Malvo sniper will not be executed. Of course, he will serve several consecutive life sentences, so I'm not sure if that's much better.

What do you think?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: dblaney]
    #3856182 - 03/02/05 09:55 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well seeing as how I am entirely against capital punishment...this is a good step forward for you guys! :yesnod:


--------------------
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What you know you can't explain,
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You don't know what it is, but it's there....
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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: dblaney]
    #3856194 - 03/02/05 09:58 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I'm pro capital punishment but the idea that you can put a minor in the electric chair but that same "man" can't vote, drink alcohol or enjoy the perks (for better or for worse) of being an adult is laughable.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineSomaton
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: dblaney]
    #3856245 - 03/02/05 10:20 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"Many that live deserve death, and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them...?

Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise can not see all ends."

:kodama:


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"Trance isn't just about the beat, it's about the movement of the beat, the sound, the life behind the music you are listening to. Listen to it the wrong way and you'll miss everything."


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: Somaton]
    #3856259 - 03/02/05 10:25 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

"Many that live deserve death, and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them...?

Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise can not see all ends."




why are you quoting J.R.R. Tolkien?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineSomaton
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3856322 - 03/02/05 10:42 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Becasue I think the quote has some value in this thread. And Tolkien put my thoughts in to better words than I ever could.

Anything else?


Edited by Somaton (03/02/05 10:43 AM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: Somaton]
    #3856366 - 03/02/05 10:54 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Becasue I think the quote has some value in this thread




debatable...


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: dblaney]
    #3856426 - 03/02/05 11:11 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

And yet again The Supremes have shown they have no conception of their proper place in the government of the United States.

Their purpose is to determine whether laws passed by the legislature are constitutional or unconstitutional. In this ruling as in several other recent rulings they have ignored the Constitution entirely, instead basing their decision on the personal prejudices of a slim majority of justices and citing the decisions of legislatures of foreign countries as "justification".

As it happens, I personally believe that murderers under a certain age should probably not be executed, but that is not the point. The point is that -- once again -- SCOTUS has overstepped their authority. This court lost its credibility several rulings ago and digs itself deeper into a hole with each succeeding attempt to legislate from the bench.



Phred


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OfflineSWEDEN
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: Phred]
    #3856733 - 03/02/05 12:43 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

If a ruler is going to have someone executed, he should perform the execution himself.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: SWEDEN]
    #3856818 - 03/02/05 12:58 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

what about letting the family of the person murdered do it.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3856959 - 03/02/05 01:26 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

What if they execute the wrong guy? Does that guy's family get to execute the family that executed him?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: trendal]
    #3857035 - 03/02/05 01:43 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Taking away someone's life in this existance is the most abominable form of rape. It violates their absolutely fundamental right to exist. It also removes their chance at redemption and to me has always seemed a hollow form of justice.

Whether it's a serial killer, a drunk driver, war or state sanctioned executions it is still a gross hubris to deny anyone their future. Who are we to make such judgements? If by some consensus we deem someone incorrigible we are still only human and fallible and it is our duty to err on the side of caution and compassion.

And ultimately that is what it is about. Less about some percieved justice in killing someone as "punishment" for a crime and more about what sort of reflection our society casts. I personally abhor murder, as most people do and when it comes down to it, just because a guard in a uniform is the one flipping the switch or a state salaried doctor is the one doing the injection, it's still murder. And it's not right.


--------------------
Happiness is a warm gun...


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: unbeliever]
    #3857068 - 03/02/05 01:50 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

My stance is simple: what if a mistake is made?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: trendal]
    #3857110 - 03/02/05 02:04 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
My stance is simple: what if a mistake is made?




That's definitely a big part of it. However I go beyond that and even assuming we could know without any doubt, reasonable or otherwise, that someone had done something that currently is considered a capital crime.. I still don't support a state sanctioned murder of that person.


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Happiness is a warm gun...


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: unbeliever]
    #3857125 - 03/02/05 02:11 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I agree with you completely, and I still wouldn't support capital punishment even if it was ensured that no mistake could be made (which isn't possible). I don't like basing my arguments on personal feelings though, so I stick to the one that I can defend: what happens when you execute an innocent person?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: trendal]
    #3857319 - 03/02/05 03:03 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

What if they execute the wrong guy? Does that guy's family get to execute the family that executed him




sure, why not.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3857439 - 03/02/05 03:36 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Case by case basis. "One law to rule them all" doesn't work (J.R.R. Tolkien was mentioned). Beyond that it most certainly has to be done case by basis, people's motivations and the consequences of them aren't omnipresent. Mentality, background, intelligence, and reasoning of the individual in question is a better structure for evaluation and the punishment thereof.


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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: Phred]
    #3857466 - 03/02/05 03:42 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
And yet again The Supremes have shown they have no conception of their proper place in the government of the United States.

Their purpose is to determine whether laws passed by the legislature are constitutional or unconstitutional. In this ruling as in several other recent rulings they have ignored the Constitution entirely, instead basing their decision on the personal prejudices of a slim majority of justices and citing the decisions of legislatures of foreign countries as "justification".

As it happens, I personally believe that murderers under a certain age should probably not be executed, but that is not the point. The point is that -- once again -- SCOTUS has overstepped their authority. This court lost its credibility several rulings ago and digs itself deeper into a hole with each succeeding attempt to legislate from the bench.



Phred



Isn't there an amendment banning "cruel and unusual punishment"? I would think this would fall under that category.


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Invisiblemoog
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Registered: 02/15/05
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: unbeliever]
    #3857524 - 03/02/05 03:58 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I totally with what you're saying. There's no justification for eye-for-an-eye punishment.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Supreme Court Rules Against Executing Minors [Re: moog]
    #3857643 - 03/02/05 04:22 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I see absolutly nothing wrong with capital punishment, but perhaps on a case by case basis deprnding on the situation.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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