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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Dear Mike, Iraq sucks
    #3216769 - 10/05/04 02:11 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Dear Mike, Iraq sucks

Civilian contractors are fleecing taxpayers; US troops don't have proper equipment; and supposedly liberated Iraqis hate them. After the release of Fahrenheit 9/11, Michael Moore received a flood of letters and emails from disillusioned and angry American soldiers serving in Iraq. Here, in an exclusive extract from his new book, we print a selection

Tuesday October 5, 2004
The Guardian

From: RH
To: mike@michaelmoore.com
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2003 4:57 PM
Subject: Iraqi freedom veteran supports you
Dear Mr Moore,
I went to Iraq with thoughts of killing people who I thought were horrible. I was like, "Fuck Iraq, fuck these people, I hope we kill thousands." I believed my president. He was taking care of business and wasn't going to let al Qaeda push us around. I was with the 3rd Squadron, 7th Cavalry, 3rd Infantry division out of Fort Stewart, Georgia. My unit was one of the first to Baghdad. I was so scared. Didn't know what to think. Seeing dead bodies for the first time. People blown in half. Little kids with no legs. It was overwhelming, the sights, sounds, fear. I was over there from Jan'03 to Aug'03. I hated every minute. It was a daily battle to keep my spirits up. I hate the army and my job. I am supposed to get out next February but will now be unable to because the asshole in the White House decided that now would be a great time to put a stop-loss in effect for the army. So I get to do a second tour in Iraq and be away from those I love again because some guy has the audacity to put others' lives on the line for his personal war. I thought we were the good guys.
From: Michael W
Sent: Tuesday July 13 2004 12.28pm
Subject: Dude, Iraq sucks


My name is Michael W and I am a 30-year-old National Guard infantryman serving in southeast Baghdad. I have been in Iraq since March of 04 and will continue to serve here until March of 05.

In the few short months my unit has been in Iraq, we have already lost one man and have had many injured (including me) in combat operations. And for what? At the very least, the government could have made sure that each of our vehicles had the proper armament to protect us soldiers.

In the early morning hours of May 10, one month to the day from my 30th birthday, I and 12 other men were attacked in a well-executed roadside ambush in south-east Baghdad. We were attacked with small-arms fire, a rocket-propelled grenade, and two well-placed roadside bombs. These roadside bombs nearly destroyed one of our Hummers and riddled my friends with shrapnel, almost killing them. They would not have had a scratch if they had the "Up Armour" kits on them. So where was [George] W [Bush] on that one?

It's just so ridiculous, which leads me to my next point. A Blackwater contractor makes $15,000 [?8,400] a month for doing the same job as my pals and me. I make about $4,000 [?2,240] a month over here. What's up with that?

Beyond that, the government is calling up more and more troops from the reserves. For what? Man, there is a huge fucking scam going on here! There are civilian contractors crawling all over this country. Blackwater, Kellogg Brown & Root, Halliburton, on and on. These contractors are doing everything you can think of from security to catering lunch!

We are spending money out the ass for this shit, and very few of the projects are going to the Iraqi people. Someone's back is getting scratched here, and it ain't the Iraqis'!

My life is left to chance at this point. I just hope I come home alive.

From: Specialist Willy
Sent: Tuesday March 9 2004 1.23pm
Subject: Thank you


Mike, I'd like to thank you for all of the support you're showing for the soldiers here in Iraq. I am in Baghdad right now, and it's such a relief to know that people still care about the lemmings who are forced to fight in this conflict.

It's hard listening to my platoon sergeant saying, "If you decide you want to kill a civilian that looks threatening, shoot him. I'd rather fill out paperwork than get one of my soldiers killed by some raghead." We are taught that if someone even looks threatening we should do something before they do something to us. I wasn't brought up in fear like that, and it's going to take some getting used to.

It's also very hard talking to people here about this war. They don't like to hear that the reason they are being torn away from their families is bullshit, or that their "president" doesn't care about them. A few people here have become quite upset with me, and at one point I was going to be discharged for constantly inciting arguments and disrespect to my commander-in-chief (Dubya). It's very hard to be silenced about this when I see the same 150 people every day just going through the motions, not sure why they are doing it.

[ Willy sent an update in early August ]

People's perceptions of this war have done a complete 180 since we got here. We had someone die in a mortar attack the first week, and ever since then, things have changed completely. Soldiers are calling their families urging them to support John Kerry. If this is happening elsewhere, it looks as if the overseas military vote that Bush is used to won't be there this time around.

More here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1319718,00.html


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: Dear Mike, Iraq sucks [Re: Xlea321]
    #3216887 - 10/05/04 02:39 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Hey, war sucks! No shit.


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Offlineallmakescombined
Boss Man

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 384
Loc: My Office
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Dear Mike, Iraq sucks [Re: Xlea321]
    #3216906 - 10/05/04 02:48 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

People who join the army are stupid to begin with - I guess it takes the brutal reality of war to wake them up. But at least they're changing their opinions. Better late than never.


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Get back to work.



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Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: Dear Mike, Iraq sucks [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3216915 - 10/05/04 02:50 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

What about people who join the Navy?


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Offlineallmakescombined
Boss Man

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 384
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Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Dear Mike, Iraq sucks [Re: retread]
    #3216924 - 10/05/04 02:53 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

That's different, since they join for artistic reasons.


--------------------
Get back to work.



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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Dear Mike, Iraq sucks [Re: Xlea321]
    #3216968 - 10/05/04 03:09 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The Gaurdian, up to the same old tricks.
Here is the real story.


Troops in survey back Bush 4-to-1 over Kerry

Mon Oct 4, 6:39 AM ET

Politics - USATODAY.com

By Dave Moniz, USA TODAY

An unscientific survey of U.S. military personnel shows they support President Bush (news - web sites) for re-election by a 4-to-1 ratio. Two-thirds of those responding said John Kerry (news - web sites)'s anti-war activities after he returned from Vietnam make them less likely to vote for him.

Do teens want to follow in their parents' career footsteps?
More USA TODAY Snapshots


In the survey of more than 4,000 full-time and part-time troops, 73% said they would vote for Bush if the election were held today; 18% said they would vote for Kerry. Of the respondents, 59% identified themselves as Republicans, 20% as independents and 13% as Democrats.

The survey was conducted Sept. 15-28 by the Army Times Publishing Co., which distributes the weekly newspapers Army Times, Navy Times, Air Force Times and Marine Corps Times. (Army Times Publishing is owned by Gannett, which also publishes USA TODAY.)

Army Times Publishing sent e-mails to more than 31,000 subscribers and received 4,165 responses on a secure Web site. The publisher cautioned that the results are not a scientific poll. Its readers are older, higher in rank and more career-oriented than the military as a whole.

Even so, experts who examined the survey results said they do not bode well for the Kerry campaign's efforts to woo the military, a traditionally Republican and conservative voting bloc. The Kerry campaign has highlighted his war record in an effort to burnish his credentials as a prospective commander in chief.

"You can't dismiss" the results, said Peter Feaver, a Duke University political scientist who for years has studied the political leanings of the U.S. military. Feaver said it's unlikely that Bush will receive 70% of votes cast by military personnel. But the results suggest it will be difficult for Kerry to make substantial gains among a group that has strongly supported Republican presidential candidates in the post-Vietnam era.

Feaver said he suspects Kerry is losing support among those in uniform because he seems less committed than Bush to prosecuting the war in Iraq (news - web sites).

Richard Kohn, a University of North Carolina history professor who has studied the political culture of the military, said the Bush campaign has been effective in creating the impression that, if elected, Kerry might "cut and run" in Iraq. "None of us who has studied Kerry's character believes that, but the Bush campaign has established in the public's mind a connection to Vietnam," Kohn said.

Kerry campaign spokesman David Wade called the Army Times Publishing effort "an inaccurate e-mail survey" and said that Kerry has "the vision and values to keep faith with military families and America's veterans."

Of survey respondents, 65% of active-duty and 67% of Guard and reserve troops said that Kerry's activities after Vietnam made them less likely to vote for him. Kerry served in Vietnam as a naval officer and was awarded a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts. He protested the war after returning home.

Only 12% of active-duty troops and 16% of Guard and reserve troops said Bush's actions in the National Guard made them less likely to vote for him. Bush received a coveted pilot's slot in the Texas Air National Guard during the height of the Vietnam War and missed a number of mandatory drills after he stopped flying fighter jets in April 1972.

Active-duty, Guard and reserve troops number about 2.4 million, a small slice of the electorate. But in closely contested states such as Florida, their votes could be crucial. The survey found little difference in presidential support among the four military branches.

While there is a lot of information available on how military veterans have voted, data on the voting patterns of active-duty personnel are scarce. Feaver said experts believe military personnel favored Bush over Al Gore (news - web sites) 2-1 in the 2000 presidential race.

A number of military analysts, including Feaver, had been predicting as recently as this summer that Bush would suffer a slight erosion this year based on a number of factors, including misgivings about the conduct of the war in Iraq and dislike of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in some military circles. Of those responding to the survey, about three-fifths said they approve of the way Bush is handling the situation in Iraq; one-quarter said they disapprove.

Military personnel who responded to the survey said they were generally happy with their jobs: 73% said they would re-enlist.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Invisibleretread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: Dear Mike, Iraq sucks [Re: allmakescombined]
    #3217007 - 10/05/04 03:29 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

allmakescombined said:
That's different, since they join for artistic reasons.




Shooting non-coms with a machine gun is "Artistic"? I'm guessing you won't vote for Kerry, right?


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InvisibleAntiMeme
yankee doodledandy
Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
Re: Dear Mike, Iraq sucks [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3217189 - 10/05/04 05:57 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, 'The Gaurdian' is such a rag. Geez, you should be so lucky to have newspapers of similar quality.


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InvisibleCJay
Dark Stranger
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Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 931
Loc: Riding a bassline
Re: Dear Mike, Iraq sucks [Re: Xlea321]
    #3217475 - 10/05/04 10:48 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Man, there is a huge fucking scam going on here! There are civilian contractors crawling all over this country. Blackwater, Kellogg Brown & Root, Halliburton, on and on. These contractors are doing everything you can think of from security to catering lunch!

We are spending money out the ass for this shit, and very few of the projects are going to the Iraqi people. Someone's back is getting scratched here, and it ain't the Iraqis'!




A war fought over a lie, has achieved its result - resources, a pipeline country, massive private rebuilding contracts for select corporations. A triumph for the world's richest tycoons but a failure for the world's people, and most of all the everyday Iraqi. A travesty one might say.


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,378
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Dear Mike, Iraq sucks [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3217486 - 10/05/04 10:56 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

"An unscientific survey of U.S. military personnel"

Seems kind of funny that they would discredit the survey they are reporting in the first sentence :smirk:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Dear Mike, Iraq sucks [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3218346 - 10/05/04 03:22 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The Gaurdian, up to the same old tricks.

What the fuck? What has the Guardian to do with this? Did you even read it? It's a reprint of letters sent by US military personnel to Micheal Moore.

What "tricks" do you believe the Guardian are "up to"?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlineallmakescombined
Boss Man

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 384
Loc: My Office
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Dear Mike, Iraq sucks [Re: Xlea321]
    #3218382 - 10/05/04 03:30 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Don't worry about Divided Sky, he wears tinfoil hats.


--------------------
Get back to work.



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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Dear Mike, Iraq sucks [Re: CJay]
    #3218400 - 10/05/04 03:35 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

A war fought over a lie, has achieved its result - resources, a pipeline country, massive private rebuilding contracts for select corporations. A triumph for the world's richest tycoons but a failure for the world's people, and most of all the everyday Iraqi. A travesty one might say.




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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Dear Mike, Iraq sucks [Re: trendal]
    #3218778 - 10/05/04 05:28 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
"An unscientific survey of U.S. military personnel"

Seems kind of funny that they would discredit the survey they are reporting in the first sentence :smirk:




So Michael Moore is somehow more scientific? The survey was taken by the Army Times with 4,000 US soldiers. Micheal Moore gets a few anectdotal letters from complete morons (see the first letter) who already like him to begin with, and you believe him?


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
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Re: Dear Mike, Iraq sucks [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3218890 - 10/05/04 05:53 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I don't believe Michael Moore, I believe the soldiers writing the letters.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Dear Mike, Iraq sucks [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3219188 - 10/05/04 06:53 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Nothing surprises me here. The army has a lot of people in it, so quite a few of those people are bound to be against the war they're fighting. At the same time, however, it doesn't surprise me the soldiers in the army support Bush 4-1, because Republicans in general are more likely to join the armed forces. I have, however, talked to some people who have served over in Iraq, and have plenty of bad shit to say about it. I have a friend in the army who is very liberal and very much anti-Bush, and I briefly got the chance to see him this summer right before he shipped out to Iraq. That must really suck fighting a war you oppose. I'm hoping he makes it back in one piece. Meanwhile, I have a very conservative friend who got out of the army on a medical discharge, but is so pro-war that he's talking about re-enlisting.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibletrendalM
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Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,378
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Dear Mike, Iraq sucks [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3220423 - 10/05/04 11:20 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

So Michael Moore is somehow more scientific?

Did I say that?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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