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OfflinePedM
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Why it Makes Sense to Cherish Others
    #3073531 - 08/31/04 01:42 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

All living beings deserved to be cherished because of the tremendous kindness they have shown us. All our temporary and ultimate happiness arises from the kindness they have shown us. Even our body is the result of the kindness of others. It did not arise spontaneously; it developed from the union of our father's sperm, and our mother's ovum. Once we had been conceived, our mother kindly allowed us to stay in her womb, nourishing our body with her blood and warmth, putting up with great discomfort, and finally going through the painful ordeal of childbirth for our sake.

We came into this world naked and empty handed, and were immediately given a home, food, clothes, and everything else we needed. While we were a helpless baby our mother protected us from danger, fed us, cleaned us, and loved us. Without her kindness we would not be alive today. Through receiving a constant supply of food, drink and care, our body gradually grew from that of a helpless baby to the body we have now. All of this nourishment was directly or indirectly provided by countless other living beings. Every cell of our body is therefore the result of other's kindness.

Even those who have never known their mother have received nouishment and loving care from other people. The mere fact that we are alive today is a testimony to the great kindness of others. It is because we have this present body with human faculties that we are able to enjoy all the pleasures and opportunities of human life. Even simple pleasures such as going for a walk or watching a beautiful sunset can be seen as a result of the kindness of innumerable living beings.

Our skills and abilities all come from the kindness of others. We have to be taught how to eat, how to walk, how to talk, and how to read and write. Even the language we speak is not our own invention, but the product of many generations. Without it, we could not communicate with others, nor share their ideas. We could not post at S&P. We could not even think clearly. All the facilities we take for granted, such as houses, cars, roads, shops, schools, hospitals, and cinemas, are produced solely through other's kindness. When we travel by bus or car, we take the roads for granted, but many people worked very hard to build them and make them safe for us to use.

The fact that some of the people who help us may have no intention of doing so is irrelevant. We receive benefit from their actions, so from our point of view this is a kindness. Rather than focusing on their motivation, which in any case we do not know, it makes more sense to focus on the practical benefit we receive. Everyone who contributes in any way towards our happiness and well-being is deserving of our gratitude and respect. If we had to give back everything that others had given us, we would have nothing left at all.

We might argue that we are not given things freely, but have to work for them. When we go shopping, we have to pay. When we eat in a restaurant, we have to pay. We may have the use of a car, but we have to buy the car, and then we have to pay for gas, tax, and insurance. No one gives us anything for free. But from where do we get this money? It is true that generally we have to work for our money, but it is others who employ us or buy our goods. And so indirectly, it is they who provide us with money. Moreover, the reason we are able to do a particular job is that we have received the necessary training or education from other people.

Wherever we look, we find only the kindness of others. We are all interconnected in a web of kindness from which it is impossible to seperate ourself. Everything that we have and everytying we enjoy, including our very life, is due to the kindness of others. In fact, every happiness there is in the world arises as a result of other's kindness.

In short, we need others for a physical, emotional, and spiritual wellbeing. Without others, we are nothing. Our sense that we are an island, an independent, self-sufficient individual, bears no relation to reality. It is closer to the truth to picture ourself as a cell in a vast body of life. Distinct, yet intimately bound up with all living beings. We cannot exist without others, and they in turn are affected by everything we do. The idea that it is possible to secure our own welfare whilst neglecting that of others, or even at the expense of others, is completely unrealistic.

If we deeply understand this, we will find that when we encounter others we naturally think "this person is important, their happiness matters." It is a much more comfortable feeling than being afraid, suspicious, or indifferent toward them.


--------------------


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Why it Makes Sense to Cherish Others [Re: Ped]
    #3073544 - 08/31/04 01:45 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

  That was a beautiful read and a great message to start my day with. Thank You! :hug:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinesandar
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Re: Why it Makes Sense to Cherish Others [Re: Ped]
    #3073575 - 08/31/04 01:58 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for this post, Ped. It made a great start to my day as well.  :heart:


--------------------
The grass was juicier than ever, the days were bright, and the nights full of stars...


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Why it Makes Sense to Cherish Others [Re: Ped]
    #3073961 - 08/31/04 03:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I am going to sleep soon, and this text bothers me, as it is a bit too long and is so self-comfortable and over-sophisticated.
It has no relevance to the third-world who are hungry and not have a computer to read this, by h*ll, nobody cares about them and they f***g have noone who they could be thankful for. What do you think, they would think, if they read this ?

Ok, let us all be the big donators and sorry, I had to let this out.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Why it Makes Sense to Cherish Others [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #3074344 - 08/31/04 04:55 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I think it is possible for anybody in any situation to be thankful for numerous things.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Why it Makes Sense to Cherish Others [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #3074471 - 08/31/04 05:15 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

What if their lives are in service to us to teach us appreciation for what we have?


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (08/31/04 07:27 PM)


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OfflinePedM
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Re: Why it Makes Sense to Cherish Others [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #3074548 - 08/31/04 05:29 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Everyone experiences suffering. We here with our luxuries experience suffering. Those without food and shelter also experience suffering. However, we with our comfortable homes and delicious food cannot bear even the slightest experience of discomfort. If a waiter or waitress brings us the wrong food at a restaurant, we get frustrated and upset. Why is that so? It is because we cherish ourselves before all others. We do not think about the kindness of others, or the innumerable benefits we have thanks to others.

The text is not aimed at the third world because in the third world it would be out of context. It is aimed at those with microwaves, automobiles, and computers because that is the most appropriate context. Why don't I travel to Africa speaking to those stricken with disease about why it's important to cherish others? It is because they have more urgent needs. It is not immediately relevant to their situation. It is, however, immediately relevant to our situation. Should the principle benefits and reasons to cherish others be thrown out simply because they were communicated in this case to a specific kind of person with certain luxuries?

Poverty and suffering exist in the world to such a high degree only because people in general lack an attitude of care and concern for others. If those people who make up societies blessed with riches had an attitude of concern for people other than themselves and those immediately relevant to themselves, we would no longer have the problem of hunger. If everybody understood the equal value of all living beings, then it would be so that all living beings would be cared for equally.

The problems of the third world are not a reason to challenge the relevance of cherishing others. If anything, the problems of the third world make cherishing others all the more relevant to everybody, everywhere.


--------------------


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Why it Makes Sense to Cherish Others [Re: Strumpling]
    #3074566 - 08/31/04 05:34 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I agree with you Strumpling. When the spirit of a human is strong in presence, it can find something to be greatful for.

Ped, it was a good addition to point out that it was not written for 3rd world lives but for our fat indulgent 1st world ones.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (08/31/04 07:26 PM)


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Why it Makes Sense to Cherish Others [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3074606 - 08/31/04 05:42 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbup:

i apologize for the lack of brilliant commentary... but your words have great meaning, and are beautiful


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Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Why it Makes Sense to Cherish Others [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3077946 - 09/01/04 02:37 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
What if their lives are in service to us to teach us appreciation for what we have?



umpf aehm, huh, I think they would not be very thankful about them serving us this way...

But....if appreciation of what we have and for others, what they do to have us this, could somehow lead us, sharing more of this to them, who don't have, I would be on your side.

I just can't see this connection.
I see a conquestador, going to his robbed-out country and then shaking hands with natives saying: 'Thank you, for giving me all that for my luxury first world style. I really appreciate that. So then, bye."
But, perhaps you and ped are right. If we really would appreciate our 'things' and them who made us recieve them, we would share something, they would need.
Until now, I see appreciation only feeding the ego.
I think, if we would not appreciate too much, it would be easier to give away.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Why it Makes Sense to Cherish Others [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #3078625 - 09/01/04 06:03 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Hey Blue,

I was looking at it from the perspective of their being highly evolved souls who chose to incarnate into poverty to give others the experience of contrast, opportunity to gain compassion, opportunity to strive for balance and equality etc. Heing highly evolved souls and living in "oneness knowing" before incarnating, they would be greatful to serve the whole of the one in this manor. Of course, when they incarnate and loose memory.....well...here we are

Perhaps they chose to experience poverty to gain an understanding of it in this life and then in a next, they may be better equipped to have compassion and move into service when they choose one of wealth. On a higher soul level, they would appreciate the opportunity to gain experiential wisdom of poverty.

I suppose I should've said, "on a higher soul level they are greatful"

I need to look at things this way or the wieght of world suffering becomes waaaaaaaaaaaaay to heavy for me. I can't feed, comfort and heal everyone in need on the planet right now.

Will feeling sorry for them help them? No

Will looking down on them in pity help them? No

Will feeling guilty that I have more and they have less help them? No

Will NOT appreciating what I do have help them? No

Do I personally find virtue in martyrdom? No

Do I take ego pride in having more then others? Hell NO! I share :smile:


I agree with you, the inequity in todays world sucks across the board. But that's complaining and it doesn't feel good and solves nothing.

Ped reminded us to cherish all of life because all of life has been a part of caring for the whole in some way. I thought that was a beautiful reminder or way to look at living things.

Here's how I know appreciation to work. The more you appreciate the more comes your way. I understand there to be unlimitted abunadance of all anyone could dream of or imagine and beleive anyone can have what they want. I'm big on appreciation!

If my husband and I knew that we did not have the means to care for a child, we wouldn't be making them like 3rd world country people do.
I know, they have religious beliefs against using birth control. I didn't tell them to beleive in that. They choose it. And there poor suffering children, if they make it to adulthood will turn around and do the same thing!

Do I wish I could bring education to 3rd world countries to teach them how care for themselves and create thriving communities? YES. Instead, america sends them food and mediocre medical supplies to keep them alive in poverity for another day.  :crazy:

Since I have no intention of solving the worlds problems today, I am going back to my perspective of choice at the higher levels to lift this weight from my shoulders. I can't make better decisions for other people I don't even know. I'm not going to feel guilty or martyr myself over any of this either.


What does appreciating things have to do with an inability to give things away? I don't understand that comment at all. I'll never give up being appreciative of and for things and in that is what makes it easier for me to share. If I don't feel I have anything worth anything then what will motivate me to think I have anything to share or give away?

This isn't a right or wrong discussion to me, I am just offering up my perspective on it. :heart: :wink:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (09/01/04 06:37 PM)


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Why it Makes Sense to Cherish Others [Re: Ped]
    #3080994 - 09/02/04 03:46 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Ped, just wanted to add that I also appreciated what you wrote.  Someone else I know has made the same comments, especially about the 3rd world thing. 

But I also have nothing to say or add.  I simply agree, and it was beautifully written.  Thank you.  :heart:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Why it Makes Sense to Cherish Others [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3082660 - 09/02/04 02:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

gjwi,

sorry, I am not so good arguing in my second language.
My believe is, if there is real pain and real suffering of souls, they need something very concrete and it should be avoided to lift off too far from the ground. That is, what helps them the least. It only quiets our sense of guilt.
Sorry sorry sorry, all these claims:

Will feeling sorry for them help them?
Will looking down on them in pity help them?
Will feeling guilty that I have more and they have less help them?
Will NOT appreciating what I do have help them?
Do I personally find virtue in martyrdom?
Do I take ego pride in having more then others?


are a definite yes for me if I look at 'our' society...
If you want, I will elaborate.

Here's how I know appreciation to work. The more you appreciate the more comes your way.
Again, that's not true for the very poor people. They sure are the greates appreciators, but that will help them in no way I could imagine.

What does appreciating things have to do with an inability to give things away? I don't understand that comment at all.
you wrote:
What if their lives are in service to us to teach us appreciation for what we have?
so I did some mathematics :wink: Poorness of others should teach us appreciation for what we have ? Poorness is something, what should really not be and comes from an inbalanced over-riched 'greed' on the other side. So yes, what has poorness to do with greed and appreciation of things and that inbalance ?
I assumed, you meant that us appreciate things, could help them getting out that inbalance (because, as I wrote, I also did not see this link and questioned back).
While spinning further, I realized, that appreciation means, to add more value in things. In our society, that means, to be greater, better, superior to accumulate those things for ourselfes, not to give them away.
I made the shortcut from increased personal appreciation to greed. I see this as a danger and I think I see this in a quite 'buddhist' way.
Of course 'normal' and 'healthy' appreciation is a way to see, what everyone would need, but the border to greed will be crossed too easily. You see that around us.

It could be, that I went over the edge by this, but I appreciate this forum and its openness and, as ever,  hope to get some good arguments for and against, to get out of imbalance myself, not wanting to put anybody down or something like that :wink:
:heart:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Why it Makes Sense to Cherish Others [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #3083072 - 09/02/04 04:01 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

WOW! I thought I was a deep thinker!

I can see from your shoes now. You are saying that to appreciate material goods is what places a higher value on them and if one is greedy, they want to hoard what is of higher value. In this light, appreciation is the root of greedy evil.

Holy smokes! It goes to show how radically vast perception can take a stance and scope on things.  Interesting!

When I read his post, it nurtured a greater appreciation in me for what extending kindness can do as it has a ripple effect. I was applying appreciation to virtues of kindness, consideration, loving gestures, gentility, and actions that serve others.

If I feel apprecitiaon for these virtues, I am inspired to share more of them myself. I don't think to hoard them because of their value to me. I have a limitless supply of these virtues to draw from.

In the case of material goods, lets get practical. Am I to give my one microwave to someone who doesn't have one? Now I don't have one. Whats the difference? If I have an extra one sitting in the gargage, should i give it away to someone who can't afford one? I think so and that would help to establish equitible distribution of goods and I donate stuff all of the time.


Really, that's getting into moral obligations and i think morality is a sink pit myself. Moral issues are supported by an idea of wrong doing and backed by guilt and I don't tread near those man made sink holes. Just talking about this stuff is depressing. I feel like someone grabbed my heart and pulled it down into my tail bone.

I like it when my heart has wings and can fly!

That pulls me out of this particular disccusion as my beleifs just don't go into depressive states that render me feeling wieghted and imobile from taking positive constructive action.

I don't think you have put anyone down. It seems to me like you are weighing yourself down with these heavy deep thoughts.

I turn over the floor on this as I flutter off of it................
  :inlove:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Why it Makes Sense to Cherish Others [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3083168 - 09/02/04 04:30 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

A common psychological assumtion is: The more deeper the thinking, the more likely it is to get depressed.
I personally left this depressing state far beyond, because there are solutions reachable by reasoning :wink:
But some things are too serious to flutter above... that was what bothered me.
But I appreciate the valuable intentions of ped by his post, just wanted to remind of 'something'...

<- looking after the iridescent butterfly...sniffing at some bushes then trotting away into the vast plains...
:heartpump:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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