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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Hypothetical Origin of Life Question
    #3041887 - 08/24/04 12:33 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Let's pretend it is 50 years from now and scientists are actually able to create life in a laboratory from inorganic matter.

If God can seemingly be removed from the equation as inserting the divine spark, how would this affect your beliefs, if at all?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: Swami]
    #3042020 - 08/24/04 01:06 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Not at all :smile:. Having beliefs that you would stand before the truth of experience is, for lack of a better word, fucked.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: Swami]
    #3042344 - 08/24/04 02:39 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

what would be more amazing is if life formed itself as a result of purely random chance with no intervention by conscious beings at all :smile:


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3042400 - 08/24/04 02:53 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
what would be more amazing is if life formed itself as a result of purely random chance with no intervention by conscious beings at all :smile:




WOULD BE?  WOULD BE?

Is.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: Sclorch]
    #3042404 - 08/24/04 02:54 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

prove it


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3042542 - 08/24/04 03:35 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

prove that it was caused


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: Swami]
    #3042661 - 08/24/04 04:11 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I think that if theists are to have any credibility they need to say that god created the rules which allow life to form, rather than creating living beings as such.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: deafpanda]
    #3042685 - 08/24/04 04:21 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Makes more sense and is what I am getting at - good call!


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Anonymous

Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3042711 - 08/24/04 04:34 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
what would be more amazing is if life formed itself as a result of purely random chance with no intervention by conscious beings at all :smile:




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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: Swami]
    #3042787 - 08/24/04 05:46 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

So you're saying that scientists creating life intentionally would disprove a higher entity creating life intentionally? I think not.

Actually, I'm interested in this issue. Does anyone have any links on what happened between the big bang and the start of evolution? How did life as a phenomenon come to be?

I've read that the chance of amino acids organising spontaneously (so not in a controlled environment like labs are here on Earth) is 1/10^40000 (!). That isn't a high chance AT ALL. The researcher coming up with this probability - while adhering to objectivism and determinism - concluded that life must have been created purposefully by some (non-material?)entity, and that, should the universe start over from the big bang, it probably wouldn't arrive at the point we are at now, where life is concerned. I've forgotten his name, but I can look it up if anyone's interested.

As for my personal beliefs... they probably wouldn't change, as I don't believe in standard seven-day creationism anyways.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


Edited by Alan Stone (08/24/04 06:22 AM)


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3042791 - 08/24/04 05:52 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I'm reading (or I was until I forgot about it) a book by Paul Davies called "The Fifth Miracle" about the origins of life, and I think that probability you quoted is way too high. Basically, the chemicals that make up proteins, while not being alive, can "evolve" using a process called "chemical evolution". This is where chemicals that replicate faster than others survive more.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: deafpanda]
    #3042830 - 08/24/04 06:28 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I'm reading (or I was until I forgot about it) a book by Paul Davies called "The Fifth Miracle" about the origins of life, and I think that probability you quoted is way too high




I never get fractions right in English. I meant 1/10^40000, whereby ^ is a power. Changed it now.

Quote:

Basically, the chemicals that make up proteins, while not being alive, can "evolve" using a process called "chemical evolution". This is where chemicals that replicate faster than others survive more.




Yeah, but the monopeptides have to combine to form amino acids, mere replication of monopeptides isn't enough. Does that book explain how it happened?


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3042886 - 08/24/04 06:59 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I've really got to re-read it, I've got it here now, I couldn't find any mention of how monopeptides become amino acids, it did however say that the chance of a bunch of amino acids forming a useful protein is 1 in 10^130.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: Sclorch]
    #3043029 - 08/24/04 08:17 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

WOULD BE? WOULD BE?

Is.




Prove it!

and btw, I havent said that life was caused by concsious intervention!


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Always Smi2le


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: Swami]
    #3043606 - 08/24/04 11:56 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

We are gods. Duh.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: Sclorch]
    #3043746 - 08/24/04 12:41 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
prove that it was caused




I never said it was.

why are you being such a hypocrite?

this is exactly why I dont respect you.

If I had made a claim like the one you did, you woiuld be howling on and on about the burden of proof.

why dont you admit that you are just as bigoted and set in your beliefs as everyone else here?


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Invisiblechunder
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Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: Swami]
    #3043879 - 08/24/04 01:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Life forming out of inorganic material before humans = a natural process.

Life forming out of inorganic material in a human lab = a natural process.

Perspective


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: chunder]
    #3043916 - 08/24/04 01:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yup :smile:


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: Swami]
    #3044155 - 08/24/04 02:18 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

- all life originates from life which already exists -

I'm not convinced that humankind creating life in a test tube (from inorganic matter or not) would necesarily be any different than humankind creating life through sexual intercourse. Both situation require a living organism to start the wheels in motion..

Dig?


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Hypothetical Origin of Life Question [Re: Swami]
    #3044255 - 08/24/04 02:49 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The earth had verrrry much time, to start evolution (in theory).

Yes, I like this question, as for I answered this in a different thread.
I think, if man influences all conditions to breed life out of inorganic matter (perhaps just stemm cell breeding could be enough reason), he gets in a way >more< responsible and powerfull for and over that life.
In great context man could >always< relay on god, that just he is the one who made it all possible, but in another extend, just the way round, man would have much much more power, responsibility, just direct 'context' to this life he breeded, because also 'man' has made and created it by himself from the possibilities and from his 'free will'.


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