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Egalitarian Society * 1
    #29719025 -

This thread is to discuss the ideas of our egalitarian society which seems to have manifested from the Shroomery MC Confessional Booth

This is a place where we can civily discuss our ideas of an ideal society as we see it

Here is google's definition of an egalitarian society

Quote:
Core Meaning of Egalitarian Philosophy

Egalitarianism is a school of political and moral philosophy centered on the core premise that all humans share an equal fundamental moral worth and status. Rather than accepting rigid social hierarchies, class systems, or inherited privileges, egalitarianism asserts that every person deserves:
β€’ Equal rights and dignity
β€’ Equal treatment and protection under the law
β€’ Equitable access to opportunities, resources, and participation in society
Depending on the specific focus, egalitarianism can manifest as legal/political equality (such as universal suffrage and equality before the law), social equality (dismantling discrimination based on race, gender, or caste), or economic/distributive equality (reducing extreme gaps in wealth or ensuring basic life provisions).



The way I see it, we already have some of these concepts in place here with our NOTM thread and all threads in the Confessional SubForum where we all can discuss our ideas as equals

See The cousin of egalitarian society here

Share your ideas on what you think a better society would look like πŸ™


--------------------
"Why try for high fives,
When my pies have nine lives?"
DUBJUG : H.D. : PLASTIC-MYC : TGE : JOIN CAKE WARS : MODERN FRUITING : MCWA : QDMT : ♾️ : MY FAV TEKS πŸ“–

Edited by langten69 (11/04/26 02:13 PM)

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: langten69] * 1
    #29719116 -

Been waiting for this.
If we don't dream out loud about something better,  we're just gonna keep doing what we did yesterday.
Sorry,  I have a few suggestions.

----------

Representation, aka government, being the source of corruption and injustice for Earth is replaced by direct democracy.

Applied locally, regionally, universally as is relevant. Each issue is up for public vote via phone app with a weighted grading curve towards locality.

Voting tabulation is a recorded, revolving civic duty, wide open to public oversight.

Votes are open record, thereby crosscheck-easy and immune to fraud.

Voting never closes. Votes can change as issues evolve.

----------


Is the education system working?

Is it productive to make energetic, curious children sit in a chair indoors and made to be still, quiet and obedient? This is no good for anyone.

To hammer them with our own historically incorrect knowledge and bias from the beginning is an Injustice to everyone.

Kids should be allowed to freely explore to find and pursue their own interests and talents.

--------

Corporations have been allowed to be a powerful and corruptive force. This cannot continue in a true global democracy.

The primary mission of all corporations is to improve the welfare of all people and the earth.

Corporate personhood rights are revoked. Corporations are not people.

Lobbying for influence is not allowed.

The people of a corporation are responsible for infractions.

Half of corporate profits are donated for public use.

No advertising.

-further measures to ensure corporations are less powerful than an individual.


--------------------
It takes guts to be
gentle and kind

Another way to live

Your ego is your nemesis.
Seek the truth tirelessly,
Even at the cost of your own sanity.
-fiddle_head

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: LadysKnight] * 1
    #29719144 -

I'unno bout the education bit.  While I absolutely agree that modern American schooling is fucked and in dire need of change, going for its polar opposite would cause just as much harm.  Kids need SOME structure in their lives.  Without it, they end up lacking in critical areas like emotional regulation.  They might not care for learning things like math, science, and history, but those are the bedrock on which our modern society is built.

I do agree that they need far more play time, and integrating play into learning is about as close to optimal as ya get for early education.  Public schooling can (or, at least, fucking well SHOULD) help even the playing field between the lowest and highest rungs of the socioeconomic ladder.  It can ensure well-off kids don't lose perspective and that poorer kids aren't left behind.

Again, structure is a good thing, we just need to ease the hell up.  And incentivize actually dealing with bullying and the like.

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: DorkWithTheHair] * 1
    #29719158 -

Yep, totally agree kids need structure and boundaries. Not saying to let them roam the streets, just get rid of classrooms and desks from the beginning.

What if kindergarten was about taking kids on regular field trips until the teachers see what interests the child. Then 1st grade is based around discovered interests, and so on.

Science and history are often found to be incorrect by future generations. What if we didn't tell them what to think?

Basic math is a given. But if they are drawn to it, show them more.

Whatever is taught should have regular warnings that this is our current best guess.

Just thoughts,  no decree.


--------------------
It takes guts to be
gentle and kind

Another way to live

Your ego is your nemesis.
Seek the truth tirelessly,
Even at the cost of your own sanity.
-fiddle_head

Edited by LadysKnight (11/04/26 05:58 PM)

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: LadysKnight] * 1
    #29719225 -

I'm not sure if this is egalitarian, but I think a key component to improving things in North America is bringing back collective bargaining.

It would help give non-political push back against corporations, potentially giving us back things like pensions and mandatory raises.

The striking mindset would probably be beneficial towards political change when two party systems aren't getting it done.

Some of the strongest worker reforms were bought by the blood of strikers such as 8hr days, overtime pay, sick pay, etc...

I also think that it would foster inclusiveness since fighting towards a common goal would bring people with different backgrounds together.


--------------------
I've got skills, they don't know where to use me
I'm like the best dressed guy at the nude beach
Nice to meet you!

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: LadysKnight]
    #29719337 -

Ehhhhhhh, the whole "science and history get proven wrong a lot, so don't teach it" thing is exactly the same line that a lot of Holocaust deniers, flat Earthers, and anti-vaxxers use.  Thing is, you can teach them to think for themselves w/o tossing two core subjects essential to understanding the world around them.

Besides, what you're seeing isn't devaluation of the subjects, but their self-correcting nature in action.  Science needs change for it to be science, otherwise what you're seeing isn't science, it's dogma.  Science, especially, isn't about teaching kids WHAT to think, but HOW to think.  How to approach their problems logically, to test ideas and not simply blindly trust the word of another.

Without scientific thought, we'd still be stoning autistic people to death, thinkin they're possessed by daemons.  And if you wanna see what happens to those that don't bother to learn history, go to a MAGA gathering.  Ignorance makes one easy to manipulate.  Education is the vaccine against that disease.

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: DorkWithTheHair] * 1
    #29719342 -

I have ideas on how to make an egalitarian society work but there are going to be some fundamental differences that some people may have a hard time with. I like to read peoples ideas but you guys might think I’m crazy if I talk too much. For example I envision a society like that to have almost no laws. I wouldn’t make any law that could in its base sentential interpretation be contradicted elsewhere. So just as there would be no laws outlawing abortion, I simply wouldn’t have laws outlawing murder either. It sounds crazy out of context, but given the rest of the way I would propose to structure society it would eventually make sense. Another thing is because there are almost no laws, there would be little need for political parties. So no one would vote.

I really should write a paper on the whole concept cause these pieces I share probably just make me look nuts. I’m definitely an anarchist but I don’t fit as ancom or ancap or mutualism or anything so far described. But it’s gonna be a huge essay and I doubt I would let anyone read it. Shit would probably treated as evidence and armed men will break into my house at night.

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #29719382 -

You've mentioned it few times already. Go ahead and share it, man! Besides, we are all kinda nuts here(or at least a good part):crazy2:
I'm looking forward to hearing about those ideas, they seem interesting from the bits you've shared so far and it really seems you've given it a lot of thought:rockon:


--------------------
Some say we'll see Armageddon soon
I certainly hope we will
:madpirate:

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: Reishi Uchiha] * 1
    #29719384 -

I’ll start an essay but no timeline or promises :lol:

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #29719391 -

Pastywhyte said:
I’ll start an essay but no timeline or promises :lol:



I have a feeling our ideal world is similar :hug:

Just explaining some of the picture definitely looks wack though I understand setting strict laws or laws of certain things would actually cause problems later and in general most laws in existence now are pointless and definitely not for the peoples benefits :lol:

Yea I don't explain my ideal world because money isn't in it and most people can't fathom that idea n when I share my ideas of what tech holds for the future they're stuck in hindsight at money being the core of the world n miss the whole point I'm trying to explain :oldman:


--------------------





An enigma some caerulescens n a mono 😎

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: Pastywhyte] * 1
    #29719456 -

You have until apocalypse, hope that's enough:rofl:

Blood I agree, majority of people are blinded by money. But hey, it's always majority that follows the few so you gotta start somewhere. I believe we'll see a huge population cut in near future and people with values like truth, honor and love will intrinsically attract each other and grow, kinda like mycelium, one for all and all for one. Rest on the other hand will scrape by for survival, kinda like bacteria.

LadysKnight said:
Yep, totally agree kids need structure and boundaries. Not saying to let them roam the streets, just get rid of classrooms and desks from the beginning.

What if kindergarten was about taking kids on regular field trips until the teachers see what interests the child. Then 1st grade is based around discovered interests, and so on.

Science and history are often found to be incorrect by future generations. What if we didn't tell them what to think?

Basic math is a given. But if they are drawn to it, show them more.

Whatever is taught should have regular warnings that this is our current best guess.

Just thoughts,  no decree.



That's some good thinking LK! As to be expected from legend who built his own house in the wilderness, by his own hands:hatsoff:


--------------------
Some say we'll see Armageddon soon
I certainly hope we will
:madpirate:

Edited by Reishi Uchiha (11/05/26 12:09 AM)

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: Reishi Uchiha] * 1
    #29719490 -

Well I believe the whole school system is setup and revolves the same can be said about college to have people learn basics that revolve around the idea of being a kog in some corporation not following they're own wants and actual interests and becoming pioneers and owners and inventors they are taught that persistence and showing up is all that matters though interests are not involved

Go to college every day learn the basics n don't miss a day. So other people can see your at least reliable and they don't care if your interested or not as your just a kog to play a role someone else designed and you got shoved in

I personally believe that there's a broad picture painted and they want everyone to follow that picture n those that don't fall through the cracks n they can't care less

The smartest and most successful people in every aspect of life was majority self taught and completely against what's taught in schools

Most successful and content people I've met in life are not workers they are inventors or business owners and creators who make things using they're time or use they're time to make sure things they setup are working properly not spending they're time hours n hours doing what they don't want

To make a check to pay rent naa..

They spend they're time doing what they want and spending the rest of they're time learning what they might add to they're life to make it more fulfilling not spending it all to pay rent to be able to recover to go back to work paycheck to paycheck.


My whole point of this is I believe knowledge and time and efforts and interest in things is 1000% more important to society and the world than monetary value.

I think it's Europe or france where people work les hours and paid more and people are all happyer and spend more time doing what they want.


And when they show up to work they get more done in those fewer hours because they have more interest in it.

I think if money was gone and knowledge and interests and barter/commeradery on top of community works together the health mental and physical of everyone involved would be much higher quality...

Except for the corporations that manipulate and use our time and our efforts to they're benefits they probably wouldn't like it to much.

If everyone's sheeps and spends 3/4th they're life working a 9 ta 5 job or sleeping to recover how is there any cultural or communal development on top of actual interest in the whole environment it creates.

To me the setup we are in creates disinterest in the whole surroundings aka the entire states in the usa cuz im in the US.

Who benefits from our draining schedule because it isn't the community it isn't the people in the streets starving I hand food to it isn't the people sleeping in the snow I spend my off hours after work to get them outta the cold and try to setup so they can actually sleep.

My own interests and efforts going overtime past that 3/4th time dedicated to the drain grind I call life in the u s of a.

My efforts beyond what's required to sustain is more fulfilling and noticeable than anything the governments done to help the people and I see it every day n it hurts my heart because I'm just one and not evin setup to help myself..

Bleeding heart man it cuts deep every time I see struggles and know I can't change it for real at most I can put a bandage on n cry with them showing compassion and acknowledgement shit ain't right.

Sorry shit got me thinking deep about stuff I touch on daily n it's a important one more important than anything else I've seen... For the people with the people in a way the people actually see and benefit from it. That's what any kind of guiding community should be about and I don't think government is supposed to control or limit the people though guide it in successful cultural propigation and (more like environmental) financial prosperity


--------------------





An enigma some caerulescens n a mono 😎

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: DorkWithTheHair] * 1
    #29719672 -

DorkWithTheHair said:
Ehhhhhhh, the whole "science and history get proven wrong a lot, so don't teach it" thing is exactly the same line that a lot of Holocaust deniers, flat Earthers, and anti-vaxxers use.  Thing is, you can teach them to think for themselves w/o tossing two core subjects essential to understanding the world around them.

Besides, what you're seeing isn't devaluation of the subjects, but their self-correcting nature in action.  Science needs change for it to be science, otherwise what you're seeing isn't science, it's dogma.  Science, especially, isn't about teaching kids WHAT to think, but HOW to think.  How to approach their problems logically, to test ideas and not simply blindly trust the word of another.

Without scientific thought, we'd still be stoning autistic people to death, thinkin they're possessed by daemons.  And if you wanna see what happens to those that don't bother to learn history, go to a MAGA gathering.  Ignorance makes one easy to manipulate.  Education is the vaccine against that disease.



We probably have gotten off track with the details, but while we're here...

What is taught comes down to what we think we know. What we think we know depends on our personal grasp of reality. What we are taught now in history and science is largely incorrect. Missing huge swaths of truth, so as to render it misinformation. And these subjects don't evolve any faster than those in power allow them. So yes, it is dogma, and I think it may be better to say nothing than to perpetuate lies to young minds. If they mature and have a penchant for the subject, give them what we have so far.

Teach love, compassion and the true nature of reality.


--------------------
It takes guts to be
gentle and kind

Another way to live

Your ego is your nemesis.
Seek the truth tirelessly,
Even at the cost of your own sanity.
-fiddle_head

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: bloodssonnew] * 1
    #29719688 -

I have ideas on how to replace money. It’s one of the most important aspects. Barter and trade won’t carry us past the 20th century unfortunately. We need something that can store the value of contributions via work. However we also need something that cannot be hoarded or to allow for capital consolidation.

In my system we need a few things, namely access to advanced tech and maintaining the infrastructure. Those jobs would be critical, essential even. To do this we need to divide the economy up differently. The main difference will be to classify goods and services into essential and non essential. Essential items and services will include things like food, basic housing, basic (public) transportation, etc. In my society those things are free to anyone who needs them. No fee. Just walk into the store and verify your need access and walk out with said items. Non essential items will be things that are luxury, not essential to survive but many people would like to have. Things like personal vehicles, larger homes, fancier clothes and food will all be luxury or non essential items. These things will cost you credits. Credits will be earned by working however, an allowance of luxury credits will be issued to all citizens regardless of work status, just in a limited amount.

The way the credits work is they are provided as compensation for work done. The more important the work (like essential items and services) to the function of society, the more credits you can earn. So doctors would make a high amount of credits, infrastructure maintenance would also receive high compensation for their essential work. Less essential work like entertainers, servers, etc would receive less credits but still more than if they did nothing at all. One could still become (successful) in their fields and by being in demand shift their scale of compensation. What this does is provides all people with the essentials, plus a little extra. If you want more than the essentials, you can work and be successful. The idea is no one struggles or starves for the basics, meaning no one is totally left behind. But if you want more than that, you can earn it. You can still improve yourself and receive merit for efforts made to benefit society.

Here is the most key part tho, and where it gets important. Credits can only be spent by the person who earned them. You cannot give credits away. No one can owe you credits. You can still buy a gift with a credit and give it to someone, but you can’t give them the credits. Would need to have something like blockchain tech to track it all. This will prevent capital consolidation, even in death the credits die with you. They no longer exist. You can leave your personal belongings to people, houses, clothes, art, can be transferred on death. But the credits do not.

This is a real Cole’s notes of the concept. I have other ideas that would be a part of the systems that go a bit deeper in terms of how corporations would operate, under what frameworks. But the main thing is the goal of making money to hold power and influence would no longer exist. The main point to working for anyone is to better themselves and society. The power structure that exists in capital would not apply anymore. People can’t be bribed, or bought. The system is then less corruptible.

I’ll maybe start a private essay and collect notes that I post here until I can produce said essay. So here is a tiny sneak peak at the most important concept I have. Money rules everything right now, I propose to remove that level of influence while maintaining the good that it does provide.

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: LadysKnight]
    #29719723 -

LadysKnight said:
If they mature and have a penchant for the subject, give them what we have so far.




Okay, finally at my PC, so I can respond properly.

In short: no.  Nonononono.  You cannot simply teach children what they want to learn.  Letting kids be in full control of what they learn is putting the cart before the horse.  There are times in life when one must do things one does not want to do.  To use a crude example: there are times I just don't wanna have a shit.  I'd rather be writing or cooking or playing Heretic.  But, I need to have that shit, or I'm going to suffer an impacted--possibly perforated--colon.  Having that shit is essential to me not dying and must be done in a timely manner.

Now, to clear up any possible confusion: I am not saying you sit kids down The Wall-style and force-feed them information.  That will also fail to create empathetic, intelligent, well-informed adults.  That is basically what we have now, and it is geared toward making good little worker drones.  THIS IS A BAD THING.

Quote:
What we are taught now in history and science is largely incorrect. Missing huge swaths of truth, so as to render it misinformation. And these subjects don't evolve any faster than those in power allow them.




...We're talking about an egalitarian--possibly outright utopian--society.  Do you not think that means a fundamental shift in the existing power structures?  Such a large-scale restructuring of society will necessitate that.  In such a shift, is it not reasonable to assume that the powers that be that have a vested interest in stymieing scientific and historical development--which is always done in the name of profit--would not also be functionally eradicated?  It would then stand to reason that the self-correcting nature of science would be permitted to continue on forward as it should, constrained only by reasonable ethical standards.

Quote:
Teach love, compassion and the true nature of reality.




(Bolding mine, for emphasis.)

Okay, getting away from the vast philosophical implications of that bit, that's what science IS.  Or, at least, that's what science tries to uncover.  That is literally its entire purpose.

But, lemme give some examples of how just not teaching kids history and science unless they "have a penchant for the subject" can backfire in extremely dangerous ways:

  • Kid does not learn about history, specifically around 1930-40s Germany.  Learns nothing about the rise of the Third Reich.  They do not learn the warning signs of growing fascism and, thus, cannot see them should they arise.  They will be then caught completely off-guard and with no idea how to respond should fascism rear its ugly head again.
  • Kid doesn't receive sex education, which is based entirely on scientifically-derived data and conclusions.  That kid doesn't learn about things like STDs and using protection.  That kid is now also incredibly vulnerable to sexual abuse.  This is not a hypothetical, there are studies that prove this is exactly what happens.
  • Kid does not learn about statistics and how statistical information can be presented, for both good and ill.  Kid grows up, finds an establishment that offers "50% better odds at blackjack."  Doesn't realize the advert, even if it is completely true, means an effectively meaningless increase in the odds of winning.  Proceeds to get totally fleeced by bad actors.
  • Kid doesn't learn about biology and human development.  Gets roped into the anti-abortion movement, being deceived into thinking it isn't basic healthcare.  Becomes radicalized by christofascists and ends up bombing an abortion clinic, killing innocent people.
  • Same kid as above hears someone they trust say "vaccines don't work and cause autism."  They internalize that lie.  Without an understanding of biology and the way in which vaccines operate, they end up not only being vulnerable to easily-preventable diseases, but becoming a living petri dish and walking superspreader event.


Not teaching kids history and science will always set them up for failure.  Instead, teach them that this information can be subject to change.  Teach them HOW to think!  To be willing to accept and understand new data and new conclusions.  To be willing to set aside old, inaccurate information and preconceived biases.

[Also, as a kid, I'd have given my left testicle to not have to take any English and history classes.  In high school, especially, but it always bored me, even when I was little.  But, now?  Both have helped me a great deal in my writing.  Because I learned that information--and tossed aside that which was later found to be wrong--I have the skills and knowledge to craft better stories.  Sometimes, doing shit you don't want to do as a kid ends up paying dividends when you grow up.  That's part of becoming an adult.]

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: DorkWithTheHair] * 1
    #29719762 -

To properly discuss this, we have to pick one side of the fence to work from. You say we are talking from the utopian side, then give examples of educational benefits from this side.

If we are in utopia, those benefits are moot.
So from the utopian angle, there are no dark forces withholding information and blasting propaganda into history and science. We aren't blind to the true nature of reality.

We are all aware that we are a single eternal being living a temporary physical existence for this experience. No one is trying to take advantage of themselves. We love each other as ourselves.

It sounds fantastical. Because it's not what we are taught. Omitting this fact means all knowledge we stack on top is building castles in a swamp.


--------------------
It takes guts to be
gentle and kind

Another way to live

Your ego is your nemesis.
Seek the truth tirelessly,
Even at the cost of your own sanity.
-fiddle_head

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: LadysKnight]
    #29719949 -

LadysKnight said:
We are all aware that we are a single eternal being living a temporary physical existence for this experience. No one is trying to take advantage of themselves. We love each other as ourselves.




I like this.  The current problem is putting it into language that people from various social/religious/econimic/language/etc. Backgrounds can comprehend and believe this.

Because the majority of the modern people in the worker drone system dont grasp this, is why the system is in place at all.


--------------------
"Why try for high fives,
When my pies have nine lives?"
DUBJUG : H.D. : PLASTIC-MYC : TGE : JOIN CAKE WARS : MODERN FRUITING : MCWA : QDMT : ♾️ : MY FAV TEKS πŸ“–

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: DorkWithTheHair]
    #29719953 -

DorkWithTheHair said:
Not teaching kids history and science will always set them up for failure.  Instead, teach them that this information can be subject to change.  Teach them HOW to think!  To be willing to accept and understand new data and new conclusions.  To be willing to set aside old, inaccurate information and preconceived biases.




I believe this is true, teaching children how to think instead of teaching them what to think is key. However, teaching people how to think is a far greater challenge than teaching them what to think .

I believe this challenge is quite necessary though for our betterment as a society.


--------------------
"Why try for high fives,
When my pies have nine lives?"
DUBJUG : H.D. : PLASTIC-MYC : TGE : JOIN CAKE WARS : MODERN FRUITING : MCWA : QDMT : ♾️ : MY FAV TEKS πŸ“–

Edited by langten69 (11/05/26 02:01 PM)

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #29719955 -

Pastywhyte said:
I’ll maybe start a private essay and collect notes that I post here until I can produce said essay. So here is a tiny sneak peak at the most important concept I have. Money rules everything right now, I propose to remove that level of influence while maintaining the good that it does provide.



Im all for it :rockon:

Cant wait to see it progress


--------------------
"Why try for high fives,
When my pies have nine lives?"
DUBJUG : H.D. : PLASTIC-MYC : TGE : JOIN CAKE WARS : MODERN FRUITING : MCWA : QDMT : ♾️ : MY FAV TEKS πŸ“–

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Re: Egalitarian Society [Re: langten69] * 1
    #29720056 -

langten69 said:
LadysKnight said:
We are all aware that we are a single eternal being living a temporary physical existence for this experience. No one is trying to take advantage of themselves. We love each other as ourselves.




I like this.  The current problem is putting it into language that people from various social/religious/econimic/language/etc. Backgrounds can comprehend and believe this.

Because the majority of the modern people in the worker drone system dont grasp this, is why the system is in place at all.



I don't expect anyone to believe it until they seek to know for themselves.

But until that happens we're stuck arguing over how to progress, aka partisan politics. :shrug:


--------------------
It takes guts to be
gentle and kind

Another way to live

Your ego is your nemesis.
Seek the truth tirelessly,
Even at the cost of your own sanity.
-fiddle_head

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