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The Concept of Individual in Mycelium * 3
    #29551228 -

I've been trying to sort out the mosiac mycelium model all morning.  Which is the idea that a colony has many active strains working together.  It looks like this was the recieved wisdom in older mycology textbooks, but sequencing showed that a mushroom, and the colony that produces it, only contain the DNA of two nuclei.  Which would explain why modern textbooks and papers never mention the genetic mosiac model.

https://sci-hub.st/10.1080/00275514.1991.12025978

Quote:
Subsequent genetic analysis of isolates of Coriolus versicolor from fruit body tissue, single basidiospores and wood isolates from defined spatial locations within a birch stump confirmed that adjacent decay columns separated by narrow undecayed zones each contained a distinct, pure
dikaryon. Each dikaryon was antagonistic towards all its neighbors, but the monokaryons derived from its basidiospores produced compatible matings with those from all these same neighbors. Similar observations followed with other fungi, including the birch polypore, Piptoporus betulinus (Fr.) Karst. (3, 4) and Stereum hirsutum (56) (TABLE 1). Taken together with evidence from previous work, these results caused me and Norman Todd to propose a con-
cept of the "individualistic mycelium" (104, 106-108, 131). This envisaged somatic rejection responses as a mechanism maintaining the identity
of individual mycelia within natural populations by preventing physiological integration with others of different genetic origin. In outcrossing ba-
sidiomycete populations, these individuals are secondary mycelia; in ascomycetes they are typically homokaryons.

Notwithstanding the long history of evidence supporting it, the concept was contrary with what we understood to be the established wisdom at that time, that hypha! fusions generated physiologically unified, co-operative genetic mosaics in natural populations. The latterview had largely been based on studies of both C. versicolor and P. betulinus which had followed up ideas generated by the observations of Buller with a non-outcrossing basidiomycete, Coprinus sterquilinus Fr.: Fr. By the late 1970s such a view would have been hard to sustain in the face of ideas of selfish genes and the demise of group selection in evolutionary theory.




--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: The Concept of Individual in Mycelium [Re: tree frog]
    #29551920 -



--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (04/18/26 09:38 AM)

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Re: The Concept of Individual in Mycelium [Re: tree frog] * 1
    #29555100 -

OMG... It's like getting homework at age 55. And enjoying it. TYVM Tree Frog.

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Re: The Concept of Individual in Mycelium [Re: DV8DUG]
    #29555102 -

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2607/9/6/1248

This is that cytoplasmic mixing paper, it's the one that mentions three nuclei bridge mycelium.

Pretty cool, reminds me of Hecate in the Greek pantheon.  Triple goddess of crossroads.

Edit:  also thanks for joining me!  I would love to have somebody to nerd out on these papers with.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: The Concept of Individual in Mycelium [Re: tree frog]
    #29555623 -

I think I'm right in saying that the mosaic model comes from the phenomenon of vegetative compatibility between different dikaryons which is distinct from reproductive compatibility and the fungal mating system.

So dikaryons from the same Vegetative Compatibility Group (VCG) ie. spore siblings from the same colony or fruits can fuse together after mating and forming dikaryons to share the same mycelial network and resources without exchanging genetic material.

So what looks like a single isolated mycelium colony can in fact contain several fused vegetatively compatible dikaryons.

I haven't been able to find a source for this but I'd presume that there's some sort of genetic dominance structure in place to determine which dikaryon in a fused network actually gets to fruit.

https://www.davidmoore.org.uk/21st_century_guidebook_to_fungi_platinum/Ch07_05.htm


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Re: The Concept of Individual in Mycelium [Re: Dave Bennett]
    #29555652 -

I've read that section a few times, but still don't fully understand its role in mosaics.

Found this this morning and going to give it a read.

Adding Pieces to Fungal Mosaics

And we also have the bridge hyphae, which link two dikaryons when one nuclei is present in both cultures using three nuclei cells.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: The Concept of Individual in Mycelium [Re: tree frog] * 1
    #29568978 -

On this related thread https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21269497/fpart/4/vc/1, I found this very interesting article on Pholiota nameko showing formation of chimera fruiting body by two selected dikaryons with different phenotypes. Subsequent grow of chimera clone gave back the different phenotypes, so they concluded that there was no anastomosis but an aggregation of different dikaryon in different amount in the fruiting body. It's a bit old and I don't know if it is a well established result that I can't completely figure out or a poorly explored question, but there is not a lot of sources on this topic.

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bbb/67/1/67_1_100/_pdf/-char/en

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Re: The Concept of Individual in Mycelium [Re: No Lame Gin]
    #29584545 -

:takingnotes:


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An enigma some caerulescens n a mono 😎

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Re: The Concept of Individual in Mycelium [Re: bloodssonnew]
    #29598284 -

So Dykaryotic cooperation may be a species specific trait. Some species have it some don't. Makes sense that longer lived species that fruit for years may not be eager to share while short lived species that take advantsge of a short lived substrate (such as manure) would be into cooperating.

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Re: The Concept of Individual in Mycelium [Re: Lennybernadino]
    #29600215 -

Yes for me it could be one of the reason but many drivers are probably at work and it's far from my expertise so I don't want to say shit ! In some species sexuality is quite complex like for black truffle Tuber melanosporum implying différent sexe and mating types, but I don't know theories on ecological drivers and benefits of different sexual strategies in detail. Would be glad to hear more about but don't know if it fit well in this thread.

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Re: The Concept of Individual in Mycelium [Re: No Lame Gin]
    #29656833 -

I am aware of a couple examples of mosaic fruit bodies, like armillaria, -out side of that I’m not aware of many examples. 

That cytoplasmic mixing paper is awesome.  Nuclear incompatibility in vegetative fungi don’t seem to be a system that get turned on in somatic environments. Programmed cell death get initiated at the point of plasmogamy 

From my research, which includes lab work,  this means if you can find a way around, or a way to stabilize cytoplasmic mixing which ignites programmed cell death, you can set up events to invite karyogamy.  :smile:; this event would be more likely to exist than a mosaic.  I suspect in nature, fungi does just this, constantly and repeatedly.

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Re: The Concept of Individual in Mycelium [Re: trippleblack]
    #29673418 -

:threadmonitor:

No Lame Gin said:
On this related thread https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21269497/fpart/4/vc/1, I found this very interesting article on Pholiota nameko showing formation of chimera fruiting body by two selected dikaryons with different phenotypes. Subsequent grow of chimera clone gave back the different phenotypes, so they concluded that there was no anastomosis but an aggregation of different dikaryon in different amount in the fruiting body. It's a bit old and I don't know if it is a well established result that I can't completely figure out or a poorly explored question, but there is not a lot of sources on this topic.

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bbb/67/1/67_1_100/_pdf/-char/en



:takingnotes:


--------------------
"Why try for high fives,
When my pies have nine lives?"

JOIN CAKE WARS III TODAY
PSA : MODERN FRUITING CONDITIONS (CUBES)
REVITALIZE THE CUBENSIS GENE POOL TODAY

Edited by langten69 (09/19/26 10:19 PM)

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