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90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated.
    #29648249 -

Suddenly, this year, all of my PF Tek attempts have failed. I've been trying for months, changing and adjusting all kinds of things, and even so, all my jars just end up getting wet and dark.I did like 30 small and 30 medium and only only have success in 2 or 3 jars.
I've been doing this for several years and have never had problems—even jars that didn't colonize for weeks would just stay dry and fine, without getting all wet and bad like this.
I've tried making minor adjustments—from tweaking the water ratios to make it dryer, to switching to a bigger pot for steam sterilization.
Here's what I do:

1) I make my jars with a 2:2:1 ratio. I've tested 2:2:1.7 and 2:2:1.5 to lean more toward the dry side.

2) I cover them with aluminum foil to prevent water from getting in, and for some I've also tried using micropore tape. Then I steam sterilize in a pot for 2 hours, timing it from when the steam fully fills the pot. I've tried both,  cover the pot with regular lid OR cover the pot with foil with rubber bands.

3) The next day, I bring them into my SAB and inoculate 0.2 to 0.5 cc per hole (each jar has 2 holes).

I prepare the syringe myself using my own spores, the same as I've done every year. I boil water, draw it into the syringe, then inside the SAB I scrape the spore print and mix it in a jar before sucking the solution back into the syringe.












Here you can see how they are few days without inoculating them.




I'm honestly feeling desperate and disheartened. Any help or advice on what more I can try would be a huge help.


--------------------
- A Dreamer in the Nightmare of being Awake -


Edited by WhiteDemon (08/27/26 11:59 AM)

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Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: WhiteDemon]
    #29648271 -

Hey there!

I'm really sorry you're having so many problems, what a pain. But... I'm sure there's some solution.

What type of whole grain rice flour are you using? Do you buy it or grind your own rice?
Are you applying ~2cm of vermiculite as a protective top layer on the jars? What temperature do you usually incubate the jars at? Have you tried using spore prints from other sources? Do you wash the containers beforehand with alcohol or bleach? Is it always the same contamination?

Look, personally I've never been a fan of jars with lids. I usually use regular glasses, or if I do use jars I also cap them with a double layer of aluminum foil with 4 holes for inoculation and a single looser layer on top to cover them. Always with those ~2cm of vermiculite on top. It's not the safest method, but I've had good results — you could give it a try.



To prepare a spore print suspension, you can try 0.9% saline solution — here we have one from a brand called Grifols and small sterile urine sample containers. I used it successfully years ago.

I'd try a different print, different jars, or different rice/verm.

Hugs :heart:


--------------------
"Little shark in da bathtub"

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Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: Belintaf] * 3
    #29648322 -

The pf write ups I see recommended here say to do 2:1:1 verm brf water. Maybe you mixed your ratios up at some point?

Updated PF Tek Guide (with Pictures)

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Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: Belintaf]
    #29648378 -

Hi! Thanks for replying! :heart:

What type of whole grain rice flour are you using?
  -I use the same rice flour I've been buying for years. I don't make it myself.
Do you buy it or grind your own rice?
  -I buy it. Every year i had success .
Are you applying ~2cm of vermiculite as a protective top layer on the jars? :
  - 1 cm aprox  of verm barrier.
What temperature do you usually incubate the jars at?
  - Every year, the same awful temperature, but I always get at least 90% of my jars to colonize.
Have you tried using spore prints from other sources?
  - No. I use my Ochras sprints for almost 3 years with good results. I tried Lucid Gates i had in a giveaway here , and the result its the same.
Do you wash the containers beforehand with alcohol or bleach?
  -I wash them with soap and water few times. Never used alcohol or bleach. Never needed. Do you think is the problem?
Is it always the same contamination?
- Yes. its wet spots than grows , its bacteria.  Some grow green mold with time.

I suspect it's my syringes/spores, because I've had success inoculating BRF jars with agar, without the vermiculite barrier, and with micropore tape over the holes.
But what's really messing with my head is that every single try has failed this summer. I haven't changed a thing — I've only gotten better , like  with my SAB technique and in terms of overall knowledge.

Edited by WhiteDemon (08/15/26 05:09 PM)

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Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: pinkpuddles]
    #29648379 -

2:1:1 its 2 verm , 1 brf , 1 water .
I did the 2:1:1 ratio. I tried 2:1: 0.7 ratio too.
I am  growing for 5 years , its not my first time xD

Edited by WhiteDemon (08/15/26 05:10 PM)

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Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: WhiteDemon]
    #29648393 -

I'd suspect that maybe the BRF brand might have started milling the flour in the same mills as other grains, causing cross-contamination across the whole batch. Though that's pure speculation.

You could try switching brands or better yet — grind the rice grain yourself. Because something that shouldn't be there seems to be surviving the 2h steaming.

And the water? Are you using tap water to prepare them?


--------------------
"Little shark in da bathtub"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: Belintaf] * 1
    #29648406 -

Ok, as a Hail Mary, you could try pre-sterilizing your flour and verm before starting.

-Get some small foil trays, or cake pans, or some other oven safe container.

-Place your rice flour in one (dry) and cover it with foil. Place your verm (also dry) in another and also cover it with foil. Try to keep the layers less than an inch (~2.5cm) thick. If necessary, work in batches or get more trays.

-Bake these at 350F (~180C) for 15 minutes.

-Allow them to come to come back down to room temperature before opening the foil. Seriously, don't open the foil while in the oven or while the contents are still hot, bad things can happen.

-Use a known clean water source (bottled, or with a recently cleaned filter unit) to work up your PF mixture.

-Mix and sterilize your jars as usual.


Your flour may toast a bit around the edges but the fungi shouldn't care too much. This also isn't a guranteed way to kill endospores (some of them are painfully resistant to dry heat) but it should at least greatly reduce the starting bioburden load.


--------------------
My Trade List!

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Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: WhiteDemon]
    #29648616 -

WhiteDemon said:
I suspect it's my syringes/spores, because I've had success inoculating BRF jars with agar, without the vermiculite barrier, and with micropore tape over the holes.
But what's really messing with my head is that every single try has failed this summer. I haven't changed a thing — I've only gotten better , like  with my SAB technique and in terms of overall knowledge.


At this point I think you should get some spores on agar and transfer until clean, then grow out agar on a brf puck as you've done before and get some clean fruits to take fresh prints from.

You didn't happen to move to a higher altitude since the last grow did you?


--------------------

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Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: bluescreen] * 4
    #29648638 -

You should run an uninoculated control jar or two alongside your inoculated jars. Should help identify your mystery.

You don't need to or shouldn't change anything. Especially your ratios. PF is tried, true, and proven to work as is.


--------------------
Agar Plates and Removing Hidden Contaminants - A Visual Notebook
Recognizing Contamination in Grain Jars - A Visual Notebook
Contaminated Condiment Cup Cleanup v1.0

Green Cap Pheno Isolation

Edited by DV8DUG (08/16/26 06:06 AM)

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Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: DV8DUG]
    #29649230 -

Thank you all, I'll take the advice into account and use other prints for agar-brf pucks.


--------------------
- A Dreamer in the Nightmare of being Awake -


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Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: WhiteDemon]
    #29653937 -

I decided give it another try , new syringe , new spore , new room. Did 4 jars of BRF with agar wedge , and 18 pf tek jars with a spore syringe.
All of the BRF/agar germinated but  suddenly stopped and stalled.
The pf tek jars 18 of 18 failed too.





You can see some pf tek jars germinated but then stalled and stop growing.




--------------------
- A Dreamer in the Nightmare of being Awake -


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Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: WhiteDemon] * 5
    #29653954 -

You say you are having a 90% failure doing the PF-Tek. What you are doing is not the PF-Tek. You are so far off the PF-Tek from what it is supposed to be, it is hardly recognizable  Everything from the size and shape of jars to the number of holes, the recipe, and making of jars without the required vermiculite layer, the making of spore syringes, etc. I am amazed you are successful even 10% of the time.

You used to be successful in years past. You may have started doing the PF-Tek but have made so many adjustments and tweaks over time. I suggest get back to the basics. Start over with the actual PF-Tek and follow the directions to the letter and you will get mushrooms.

Also get yourself a pressure cooker, you can find them used very affordable. Follow the Tek user pinkpuddles linked for you. It really is foolproof. It is only when you start experimenting and go off course that people fail.

Believe me, follow the tek and in 4-6 weeks you will have plenty of mushrooms for you to trip on and a lifetime of spores.

Start over from scratch. You can do it. Good luck! :cool:


--------------------
The Combo Tek - Easy grow method for newbies and pros alike

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Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: veggie]
    #29654920 -

- " Everything from the size and shape of jars to the number of holes, the recipe, and making of jars without the required vermiculite layer, the making of spore syringes, etc. I am amazed you are successful even 10% of the time."


Can you tell me what thing or part I do differently? I do everything exactly the same as the pf tek. link: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24179086

I am following the PF Tek to the letter. I am using jars of the same size, 1/4 pint jars. I am using a 1.5 cm vermiculite layer.


Tell me which strep i am doing differently please.

Yes, I'm also using some larger jars, as BRF pucks inoculated with agar , which have nothing to do with PF Tek, and which I've used many times in the past. It's not my own tek. 
I started from scratch 4 times with same result this year. That is the reason i asking for help. But you say and assert things that aren't true, and I don't know if it's because I'm expressing myself poorly or because you're not reading carefully.

However, rather than offering help, you point out that I'm doing the steps incorrectly — which suggests you haven't read the entire post, only the final section. Perhaps that wasn't your intention.

You tell me to start from scratch, but you haven't bothered to point out which steps I'm doing wrong and what I could change this time to do better. At the beginning, I took the time to list ALL the steps in order and in detail — which you obviously didn't read. So tell me, which of those steps am I doing wrong please?
Anyway, the 24 jars are small 1/4 pints jars and have a vermiculite layer, exactly like in the tek, 100% the same. Tell me which i am doing diferently please? I am doing the same tek all these 5 years with amazing success, you can see my gallery.
There are the stpes i wrote above:

"Here's what I do:

1) I make my jars with a 2:2:1 ratio. I've tested 2:2:1.7 and 2:2:1.5 to lean more toward the dry side.

2) I cover them with aluminum foil to prevent water from getting in, and for some I've also tried using micropore tape. Then I steam sterilize in a pot for 2 hours, timing it from when the steam fully fills the pot. I've tried both,  cover the pot with regular lid OR cover the pot with foil with rubber bands.

3) The next day, I bring them into my SAB and inoculate 0.2 to 0.5 cc per hole (each jar has 2 holes).

I prepare the syringe myself using my own spores, the same as I've done every year. I boil water, draw it into the syringe, then inside the SAB I scrape the spore print and mix it in a jar before sucking the solution back into the syringe."

Edited by WhiteDemon (08/25/26 11:52 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: WhiteDemon]
    #29654946 -

I may have been a newb at the time and just sucked, but I had the hardest time getting regular brown rice flour to do what I wanted, personally.  Had better success with either buckwheat or red cargo rice I ground as fine as my hand-cranked espresso grinder could get.  As far as ratios, I couldn't tell ya.  Admittedly, I just kinda eyeball it, lol.

But, yeah.  If you're havin such bad luck w/ BRF, ya don't got much to lose tryin some different kinda gluten-free flour.

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Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: DorkWithTheHair]
    #29654959 -

I have tried the only two brands available in my area. The same brown rice flour from the same brand I have always used. I have tried another brand as well, without success. I also tried grinding my own brown rice flour at the beginning of the summer. All with the same result, which has led me to think  that the flour wasnt the issue.

Edited by WhiteDemon (08/25/26 12:43 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: WhiteDemon] * 1
    #29654971 -

WhiteDemon said:
I am following the PF Tek to the letter. I do everything exactly the same as the pf tek. Can you tell me what thing or part I do differently?



No, I am not going to do that. It would not be productive.

I'll just say that for the past 30 years people report a 90% and higher success rate following the PF-Tek. You are reporting the exact opposite, a 90% failure rate. It doesn't take that much to assume you may be doing something different. You say you have successfully used the PF-Tek in the past.


WhiteDemon also said:
Any help will be appreciated.


We all know, including yourself, that the PF-Tek works with a very high success rate. All I am suggesting is that you go back to the basics. First, get a pressure cooker. Then follow the Tek as it is written. If you have questions along the way, speak up. Trust me, you will end up with mushrooms.

I'll add that the P.cubensis is the easiest mushroom to grow, even including the edible oyster mushroom. They just seem to want to grow. There are many ways to grow cubes, the PF-Tek is but one way. You are focusing on that, so let's stay here for now.

After you get handfuls of shrooms, you can just stay using that method. Or move on to something else. Up to you. With a pressure cooker on hand, it opens up a whole new world of cultivation methods, just as easy but with a much higher volume.


--------------------
The Combo Tek - Easy grow method for newbies and pros alike

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Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: veggie]
    #29655009 -

And how does telling me nothing; helps me?
All you've done is tell me I'm doing something wrong, but not what. I already knew that — that's why I'm here asking for help.
I've started from zero 4 times this summer, trying to take everything into account and follow everything to perfection. Hence the sheer desperation of trying to ask for help in case there's something I'm missing that I could do more.
Your comment hasn't been helpful at all.
    "All I am suggesting is that you go back to the basics" ⟶ What's that supposed to mean? xD

Edited by WhiteDemon (08/25/26 02:09 PM)

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Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: veggie] * 2
    #29655011 -

If you're sure the rice wasn't treated with antifungal, and the cakes are cool before inoculation, my guess is they are stalling from bacteria as you have sufficient GE and no visible mold. So I would put my efforts into sterilization. Like Veggie says, A PC would reduce variables. Also, how clean is that syringe?


--------------------
It takes guts to be
gentle and kind

Another way to live

Your ego is your nemesis.
Seek the truth tirelessly,
Even at the cost of your own sanity.
-fiddle_head

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: LadysKnight] * 1
    #29655013 -

I've bought new syringes and used a fresh print.


--------------------
- A Dreamer in the Nightmare of being Awake -


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Re: 90% failure on PF -TEK. Any help will be appreciated. [Re: WhiteDemon]
    #29655017 -

How do those old failed cakes smell?


--------------------
It takes guts to be
gentle and kind

Another way to live

Your ego is your nemesis.
Seek the truth tirelessly,
Even at the cost of your own sanity.
-fiddle_head

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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