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Re: Tell us what WMD have been found [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2959196 -

Quote:
Did you actually read the article? I only ask because you call me narrow minded and egomaniacal, but then make statements such as these that lead me to believe either you didn't read it or you didn't understand it. I've recently begun to try being more polite so the former seemed like the correct question though the rest of your post makes me suspect the latter.
 



I understood it perfectly well but as far as I can see it offers no conclusive proof.

Quote:
Do you understand how the intelligence game works? I've lost count of how many times this has been covered but once again, proof is very rare. Evidence, in a variety of forms, is gathered to piece together what happened/happening. The more independant sources and types that can be collected, the more likely that correct scenario will manifest itself.




Oh I did not realise that you have in depth knowledge of the "intelligence game". Have you ever worked in the field? Perhaps you can not talk about it for legal reasons!

The various reports on the failures of the intelligence community seem to suggest that most of the supposed intel used to justify the war came from single unchecked sources etc. Surely someone with your in depth knowledge would know that governments should not give this kind of intel enough credence to justify a war.

What part of the article on Iraq trying to purchase uranium do you find so conclusive? Lets face it, If the US or the UK had conclusive evidence of Iraq attempting to buy uranium for nuclear weapons then We would have heard Bush and Blair crowing about it time and time again. Lots of evidence, little proof.

Hey perhaps you better send your incontrevertible evidence to the White House, perhaps they havent heard it yet.

"The raw intelligence on the negotiations included indications that Libya was investing in Niger's uranium industry to prop it up at a time when demand had fallen, and that sales to Iraq were just a part of the clandestine export plan. These secret exports would allow countries with undeclared nuclear programmes to build up uranium stockpiles. "

Raw intelligence that seems to have amounted to nothing conclusive or tangible.

As for the link you provide that supposedly links Al-qaeda to Iraq...well if you find that truly convincing then good for you but I need something a litte more tangible than evidence that relies on accepting that two different names equate to the same person because "that kind of thing is common" More to the point, if credible proof of the link actually existed we would have heard all about it by now. We would have heard Bush and Blair crowing about it time and time again. Lots of evidence, little proof.

Quote:
Good God! Read! Try David Kay's initial report or my previous posts. 



Kay stated in an interview with the Guardian after he had made his report, (which would make this his most up to date opinion) that he believes any weapons the Iraqi's had were destroyed prior to 1998. He also states that. "There were continuing clandestine activities but increasingly driven more by corruption than driven by purposeful directed weapons programmes,"

Yes Kay claimed to find evidence of many things but did he actually find enough evidence to prove anything? Obviously not as we would have heard all about it by now because lets face it any proof of this kind could come in extremely handy to Bush and Co. right now. We would have heard Bush and Blair crowing about it time and time again. Lots of evidence, little proof.

Quote:
4. A bit about my ego and the ability to change my mind seemingly meant to discredit my idea, again without actual reason.
 



Dont worry, it appears this condition has affected many people. Take a look at Divided sky's post earlier in the thread for an example of a rather accute case.  :grin:



Quote:
I lay out an adequately in depth post detailing my reasoning for believing what I did and do



Perhaps our definitions of in depth and detailled differ. The words clutching and straws sprung to my mind after reading your post.


--------------------
Always Smi2le

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Re: Tell us what WMD have been found [Re: Xlea321]
    #2960244 -

A rusty shell is to justify a war and thousands of dead civilians?


--------------------
"Dude, I'm the Genie, Man!" said the genie.
"Yeah, man. It's like you appear outa nowhere!" said the Wanderer in awe, as he passed the pipe to the genie.

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Re: Tell us what WMD have been found [Re: EdwardTheGreat]
    #2960251 -

You don't realise the terrible damage a rusty shell can do  :laugh:


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Tell us what WMD have been found [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2960263 -

Do you understand how the intelligence game works?

I posted an article about the quality of the "intelligence" from a well known alcoholic called "Curveball". A man who took his "intelligence" work so seriously that the night before he dispensed his vital truths he tied one on.

Curveball came up the bedrock of the "intelligence" behind Powells presentation to the UN. He was the only source. He probably dreamt it up when he was sinking his fifth double vodka the night before. Even the US handlers thought it was a joke.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Tell us what WMD have been found [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2963294 -

I take your point - However the Taliban has been known to be a dastardly band of oppressive, destructive intent since it's formation. If I had been the US president I would have washed my hands of them and certainly never treated them to all expenses paid trips to my country.

Perhaps it's a bit like the US led terrorist effort in Iran in 1953 that removed a democratic leader and replaced him with a dictator. Then that person becomes legit and they can use the argument you put forward - "Hey the dictator we put in place by force is the government, we have to co-operate and respect him. He is legitimate, unlike that sorry democratic leader we deposed"

"The Taliban first appeared on the political scene of Afghanistan in September, 1994 in the southern Province of Kandhar, and have since taken about 90% of Afghanistan. Never has any group been more controversial then the Taliban of Afghanistan. Patrolling the streets in the pickup trucks, the Taliban members, under the General Department for the Preservation of Virtue and Prevention of Vice (Amr-bil Maroof Wa Nahi Anil Munkar), search houses and destroy any television sets, radios, cassettes, and photographs. The bands of Taliban thugs roam the streets beating those they deem to be violators of the Shariah (Islamic code of Law) [2]. The Taliban's harsh fundamentalist rule has dismantled all civil institutions, and closed all women Institutions. Their leader, Mullah Mohammad Omar, cloaks himself in secrecy, refusing to grant interviews or allow his photo to be taken.

NO PRESS or International media is allowed in Afghanistan.

While the inhuman execution of the innocent civilians are carried out in Afghanistan, the "champions of democracy" , including the USA, Great Britian, all the Western powers and the so-called civilized institutions such as the United Nations remains as spectators on the side."

Inviting them to dinner and generally co-operating, certainly not publiscising any dissent for the Taliban.

Sounds like the Taliban rule by using violence for political ends, especially because of the fear it causes amongst the people - in other words they are 'terrorists'. Terror is how they maintain control.

The USA (amongst other nations) is in alliance with the scum of the earth, and even aids their creation and wellbeing....until these scum get fed up having their strings pulled. It's a pattern.

------------------------------------------

Another example for you - perhaps illicit enough:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2601875.stm

"the British Government constantly maintained open channels with the IRA during the worst of the Troubles."

Governments hold meetings with terrorist group representatives all the time. Whether the government is that of Afganistan (the Taliban), Iraq, UK or USA - it doesn't necessarily follow that that means they are in cahoots.

bin Laden despised Saddam's secular regime and their 'meetings' may well have been an attempt of the Iraqi government to find a peaceful solution to disagreements with these terrorists.

Who knows...?

The fact is that there is no proof either way.

Edited by CJay (08/04/04 06:33 AM)

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Re: Tell us what WMD have been found [Re: CJay]
    #2963682 -

And 10 years later with massive US support the Northern Alliance warlords rule Afghanistan. The Northern Alliance was so vicious that the people of Afghanistan were relieved when the Taliban defeated them.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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